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I've been recently deliberating upon how to handle my best friend's/archnemesis's hordes of Hormagaunts and Termagants in a more aggressive way, as my army is mostly a "gunline" one with lots of Noise Marines and two Predators Annihilators. After comparing a few options, I decided that the best addition to my army (out of those options) would be a unit of 6 Chaos Bikers with 2 Flamers. However, I can't decide which setup would be better: Khornate or Slaaneshi?

Slaaneshi Bikers have Initiative 5 and may take Icon of Excess. This means that in CC they strike first against Termagants and simultaneously with Hormagaunts, and FnP helps survive the flood of wounds should they find themselves in a dire situation. In addition, my entire army is a Slaaneshi one, so they would fit right in.

On the other hand, Khornate Bikers have Rage & Counter-Attack, and receive Furious Charge and charge distance re-roll with Icon of Wrath. They dish out a lot of hurt on the charge and still get +1 CC attack when charged. Even though an unlikely ally for a Slaaneshi army, I play Children of Torment, so a unit of Hounds of Abbadon isn't that unlikely to join the slaughter.

What do you think about those two setups as far as butchering GEQ (and possibly MEQ) in CC is concerned?

Neither, Nurgle for t6 nah but srsly slaneesh one higher I and can have some cool characters with... Khorne bikers are also good but take a skullcrusher lord with them
This really is up to you tough but if you do not take Khorne allways have stacked on special weapons.

I would say go Khorne. The weight of attacks will put you in a better position in CC than higher initiative. FnP is good but it can also be sniped out. If you find yourself in combat with something scary in CC than I'd rather have weight of dice in my favor over going first with fingers crossed.

Khorne. Have them escort a AoBF juggerlord.

However, if you field biker sorc - go slaanesh.

I'd say slaanesh. You get to stick with the theme, they're more durable, and they attack first which is still very nice in CC.

I also think it would be cool to throw a sorcerer in there with them to throw some blessings around and to give the bikers fearless.

 changerofways wrote:
I'd say slaanesh. You get to stick with the theme, they're more durable, and they attack first which is still very nice in CC.

I also think it would be cool to throw a sorcerer in there with them to throw some blessings around and to give the bikers fearless.

According to my calculations (which may or may not be accurate), Khorne Bikers would perform slightly better in combat, but the difference isn't that great. Likely not enough to write off Slaaneshi, particularly given the theme of my army.

A Biker Sorc in there would be nice for Ld 10, but no Fearless, sadly. Not even Stubborn

Neither.

Marks on bikes are a bad idea. They are already costly and adding points for marks does not increase their survivability (except nurgle, but spawn are way better).

In general though I have found spawn always perform better than bikes. Matter of fact, spawn always perform every game, when bikes rarely accomplish something very useful.

Between those two choices, I'd go with slaanesh. The IoW isn't as useful on a squad that already drives so quickly to get into close combat, while FNP is also useful outside of CC (making the bikes better all-arounders). Plus, in your case, as you mention, you'd actually get a little bit of use of the +I.

Plus, as you note, it fits your theme better.

Khorne bikers are going to be better in a khorne army where everything is charging forwards trying to get into melee. Having a small handful of big, scary bikes with an AoBF lord as the only thing charging forward is little more than a recipe for dead bikes.

I would go with slaanesh but it somewhat matters if you were going to take a juggerlord. If you were they the khorne or unmarked bikers are better.

Since you want to run up with flamers the slaanesh one is actually a little better. The common occurrence will be you drive up, flame/bolter the unit (12 average kills), charge them, get your hammer of wrath attacks (which hit automatically, ~3 kills), and then attack at the same time or before the unit (~4 kills). Your are looking at some serious kill count on that first turn. Unless your friend is bringning nothing but 30 gaunt units this is probably overkill anyways.

Don't forget your wall of death overwatch with the flamer BTW. You will almost assuredly be counter assaulted if they don't blast you off the board after your first assault.

I agree with Slaaneshi bikes, and bikes > spawn in this specific situation. Since they're relentless they're shooting every turn they aren't already locked in CC, and vs 'Nid swarm more guns is NEVER a bad thing. Every kill you can get matters. Plus if he has any poison on his bugs at all, Spawn are dead but bikers still get 3+.

Bikes are also not bad for extra grounding tests since you got tl bolters. As an ork player i can tell you that the more msu guns you have vs nids or flying circus - the better. Every single rhino with a tl bolter is a real threat to fmc. And the moment you kill a flyrant his list starts falling apart.

I'd still prefer nurgle spawns in almost any situation but op asked to compare bikers.

If u're running AoBF lord - go with unmarked or khorne bikes. If you run a sorc (he's almost alwayz better off unmarked) - go slaanesh or nurgle bikers. Nurgle bikers with fnp from biomancy are something. it's usually possible to stay out from the shadow in the warp to buff youself before engaging.

You can't run an unmarked AoBF lord.

Which, of course, compromises your ability to stick him in anything other than a khrone or unmarked squad.

I choose 5 x spawn w/ MoN for a good counter, maybe 2 units.

Thanks for all the feedback!

The Chaos Spawn are an interesting option, but as Laughingcarp has mentioned, Toxin Sacs would easily render their T5 meaningless, and then there would be no armour save. Slaaneshi Bikers have good durability with T5, 3+ and FnP, and may actually manoeuvre around a unit of Gants/Gaunts and soften them up a bit with ranged attacks before going for the charge.

It's also worth noting that a meaningful unit of Chaos Spawn would kill my wallet much harder than 6 Chaos Bikers...

Anyway, I'm most likely going to add Slaaneshi Bikers in the near future. Thanks again!

 herpguy wrote:
Neither.

Marks on bikes are a bad idea. They are already costly and adding points for marks does not increase their survivability (except nurgle, but spawn are way better).

In general though I have found spawn always perform better than bikes. Matter of fact, spawn always perform every game, when bikes rarely accomplish something very useful.

Costly?..., you know that bikes only cost 20pts per dudes right?

Even kitted out, they come only at a 180pts price for 5 bikes with double melta, MoK, Icon and champ with LC.

Also, spawn can't shoot, while bikes can. There's a lot you can do in the shooting phase.

Also, I might reconsider flamers for the squad. Yeah, I know you want to roast stuff, and they're not bad for this case, but if you give them plasmas instead, you can also threaten his MCs.

Unless you want to keep the threat profile low to keep the bikes alive, I suppose.

 Ailaros wrote:
Also, spawn can't shoot, while bikes can. There's a lot you can do in the shooting phase.

Also, I might reconsider flamers for the squad. Yeah, I know you want to roast stuff, and they're not bad for this case, but if you give them plasmas instead, you can also threaten his MCs.

Unless you want to keep the threat profile low to keep the bikes alive, I suppose.

Giving them Plasma Guns isn't a bad idea in general, though I'd rather have them roast the little bugs. Magnetising the guns is definitely worth considering, though.

I'm not entirely sure how they'd do against Tyranids. But my son always throws 6-8 nurgle bikers are my Orks and it's some of the toughest fighting I have to deal with. Hitting first is good but when I need 5's or 6's to wound...it sucks balls

Johnnytorrance wrote:
I'm not entirely sure how they'd do against Tyranids. But my son always throws 6-8 nurgle bikers are my Orks and it's some of the toughest fighting I have to deal with. Hitting first is good but when I need 5's or 6's to wound...it sucks balls

This is more or less what I want to achieve. He gives his Hormagaunts Adrenal Glands, so they get Furious Charge. However, if I get to charge at them, not only I can soften them up with a volley first, but then S3 against T5 means he only wounds the Bikers on 6's, and then it has to get past 3+ and FnP...

If you have 180ish points to spend on whatever unit you decide on, why not go in a different direction and pick up a herald of slaanesh and 10 daemonettes as allies.

While more vulnerable to shooting attacks, they'll do a hell of a lot more damage in combat than either variety of bikers.

Stick with the theme. You'll regret compromising on it even if the Khorne bikers work a little better

Ap0k wrote:If you have 180ish points to spend on whatever unit you decide on, why not go in a different direction and pick up a herald of slaanesh and 10 daemonettes as allies.

While more vulnerable to shooting attacks, they'll do a hell of a lot more damage in combat than either variety of bikers.

Actually, this isn't a bad idea. I'll take a look at the Daemons Codex.

Dakkamite wrote:Stick with the theme. You'll regret compromising on it even if the Khorne bikers work a little better

You're right. A minor increase in efficiency isn't worth ruining the thematic integrity of my army.

If you want to roast the bugs, why not a heldrake? However, If bikes are what you want, go Slaanesh and grab a bike sorc.

Khorne bikers are indeed great. against nids do just what you said; give them 2 flamers and use them to murder his troops real fast. Only thing you might want to consider is a power maul on the champion, and maybe melta bombs on him too.