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As a semi newb that didn't play 40K back in the day I don't exactly know what chapter approved is. I have heard about it though and have a general idea of what it was.

My question is, every time someone mentions chapter approved there is a sigh of longing for them to come back and general love for the chapter approved. However, data slates seem to have a TON of hate.. when in my understanding they are basically chapter approved with a new name and some new technology behind it.

Why is one loved and the other hated?

Chapter approved where unit/army/character rules published in White Dwarf for use. The last one we got was Codex: Sisters of Battle. Dataslates seem to be the digital successor to that idea, though those small codexes seem to be getting actual codex releases.

bodazoka wrote:
As a semi newb that didn't play 40K back in the day I don't exactly know what chapter approved is. I have heard about it though and have a general idea of what it was.

My question is, every time someone mentions chapter approved there is a sigh of longing for them to come back and general love for the chapter approved. However, data slates seem to have a TON of hate.. when in my understanding they are basically chapter approved with a new name and some new technology behind it.

Why is one loved and the other hated?

the hate mostly regards to the fact you pay for 2-3 pages of rules (the newer have more rules, though) and that they're too pulverized in many distinct products.

Dataslates are overpriced for what they are. They are digital only which many people don't like (myself included). They are far too piecemeal (why did 'nids need 3 dataslates? They could have been wrapped up in to 1 publication easily, if not just included in the codex). They further spread the rules all over the place. As if 40k rules weren't convoluted enough and spread through too many books, now we have dataslates as well!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Dataslates are overpriced for what they are. They are digital only which many people don't like (myself included). They are far too piecemeal (why did 'nids need 3 dataslates? They could have been wrapped up in to 1 publication easily, if not just included in the codex). They further spread the rules all over the place. As if 40k rules weren't convoluted enough and spread through too many books, now we have dataslates as well!

How do those issues compare with the chapter approved?

1. Over priced - Agree, I could take $2-3 off every one and be happy.
2. Digital - These day's it is arguable that a digital product is more readily available, and well it is the 20th century (no disrespect at all to yourself)
3. Piecemeal - I don't agree with the "wrapped up in a codex" idea, how can roughly 10+ formations be wrapped up easily in a codex along with the narrative and the extra missions? I also see your point regarding why it could not be put in one place but I don't understand why that is inherently a bad thing?
4. Rule Spread - I agree with this, it is daunting having to play a Nid army which has different rules every time you play them

Chapter Approved usually came with a White Dwarf when it still had other features, like detailed hobby tips and real content worth digesting.

The new dataslates are obvious rules with added fluff.

I don't mind the digital because I have the Sisters and Inquisition Codecis (to actually play Witchunters), but it is kind of frustrating to manage them. And with stealth updates through patches, two people may have two different codecis determining the last time you went online.

Seeing as some of the Dataslates cost as little as $5 I don't think we need to knock money off of all of them. I think $15+ is too much for them unless they come with a LOT of rules, which I haven't seen yet.

And just a thought, but should a Nid army be adaptable enough to be different everytime you face them? I mean their big character trait is their ability to evolve to handle any threat....

bodazoka wrote:
2. Digital - These day's it is arguable that a digital product is more readily available, and well it is the 20th century (no disrespect at all to yourself)

Digital can be good, only digital sucks and GW's version of digital sucks. Not everyone has or wants an ipad, the non-ipad version of ebooks suck**, at least all the ones I've bought or seen. The formatting is terrible, pages and pages of wasted space, painful to read them. The one ebook I bought I ended up having to export as a word document and wasted an evening of my time fixing the formatting to something half decent and exporting it to a PDF.

Digital can be good, it's not like I'm stuck in the past, it's just GW's version of digital sucks hairy dog balls and digital-only is stupid. Not everyone has or wants an ipad or an ereader.

**the ipad versions may suck as well, I've never tried one, but the non-ipad versions most definitely suck.

bodazoka wrote:
3. Piecemeal - I don't agree with the "wrapped up in a codex" idea, how can roughly 10+ formations be wrapped up easily in a codex along with the narrative and the extra missions? I also see your point regarding why it could not be put in one place but I don't understand why that is inherently a bad thing?

Yeah I didn't really think about the extra missions, but the actual 10+ Tyranid formations amount to about a paragraph worth of information each. Totally could have been put in the codex. Buying all 3 of them is $45 when you've already paid $50 for the codex and you now have rules spread over 3 different publications... IMO that's inherently a bad thing.

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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Seeing as some of the Dataslates cost as little as $5 I don't think we need to knock money off of all of them. I think $15+ is too much for them unless they come with a LOT of rules, which I haven't seen yet.

And just a thought, but should a Nid army be adaptable enough to be different everytime you face them? I mean their big character trait is their ability to evolve to handle any threat....

I haven't bought any of the 'nid dataslates, but I've seen a couple of them that a friend bought. If you already own the tyranid codex, the new rules contained within the dataslates could be expressed in a page quite easily (standard codex-sized page). They also contain a couple of missions in each one.

Hardly worth $15 each if you ask me.

If you like fluff, they do have fluff, but I will be honest I haven't read them to know the quality of the fluff and whether or not it's just copy/pasted from elsewhere.

If you look at the BL site, the 'nid dataslates are about 120 pages, however around half of that is glossary and the other half is terribly formatted ebook pages, so realistically they're probably more like 15-20 pages. Less if you ignore the rules that are just duplicated in the codex and the pictures (which IMO have no value in this day and age).

Didn't they gather together all the chapter approved rules occasionally?

That helps a bit.

bodazoka wrote:

2. Digital - These day's it is arguable that a digital product is more readily available, and well it is the 20th century (no disrespect at all to yourself)

We're in the 21st century.... (There is no zero year.)

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
2. Digital - These day's it is arguable that a digital product is more readily available, and well it is the 20th century (no disrespect at all to yourself)

Digital can be good, only digital sucks and GW's version of digital sucks. Not everyone has or wants an ipad, the non-ipad version of ebooks suck**, at least all the ones I've bought or seen. The formatting is terrible, pages and pages of wasted space, painful to read them. The one ebook I bought I ended up having to export as a word document and wasted an evening of my time fixing the formatting to something half decent and exporting it to a PDF.

Digital can be good, it's not like I'm stuck in the past, it's just GW's version of digital sucks hairy dog balls and digital-only is stupid. Not everyone has or wants an ipad or an ereader.

**the ipad versions may suck as well, I've never tried one, but the non-ipad versions most definitely suck.

bodazoka wrote:
3. Piecemeal - I don't agree with the "wrapped up in a codex" idea, how can roughly 10+ formations be wrapped up easily in a codex along with the narrative and the extra missions? I also see your point regarding why it could not be put in one place but I don't understand why that is inherently a bad thing?

Yeah I didn't really think about the extra missions, but the actual 10+ Tyranid formations amount to about a paragraph worth of information each. Totally could have been put in the codex. Buying all 3 of them is $45 when you've already paid $50 for the codex and you now have rules spread over 3 different publications... IMO that's inherently a bad thing.

I have downloaded all the Nid ones so far (on the Ipad) and don't have a problem at all with formatting or reading pages? they have "quick links" to every BRB rule so you don't have to refer to the BRB, they supply you with the rules (including points) for all the units in the formation, they have 360 degree views of models, new art work and (from memory) around 6 ipad pages worth of fluff not including the little blurbs they spread around. The very first digital download I got was the old Space Marine codex and that was a tad shonky to be honest, but these ones were great.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/271942/sales-of-tablets-and-ipads-in-the-us-until-2012/ - Says 30 million Ipads were sold in America in 2012 (population 318 million)

I do agree with the "spread out ness" of the formations being annoying, I would not be surprised to see a combined version of all three data slates in the future. Combine all of the data slates and you are not far off the combined total being equivalent to an IA book just with one army instead of 2.

EDIT - The non Ipad one's might not be as well done it's just my experience with the Ipad ones lately have been good.

Yeah I've heard the ipad formatting is far better... but not everyone owns an ipad so I still think it's stupid. I don't have an ipad and I have no reason to own an ipad, sure as hell not buying one just to get some digital editions.

The only ebook I've bought was the tyranid codex and it sucked, I've seen the tyranid dataslate ebooks and they look equally sucky.

It is ebook that is sucky; the enhanced version works on oboth iPad and Android, however the publishing software they use literally charges you double to publish the enhanced version on both platforms. To be fari to GW, that would be a terribble business decision given the iPad tablet arena dominance.*

Digital only - for a damn good reason. Costs. NO minimum print runs. NO logistics headaches. NO waiting around to fit into print schedules. Yes you can have PoD now, but that is *expensive* - making even Apples 30% cut on the store seem reasonable - and you still have logistics issues.

In the codex - no. Just no. I would rather have little updates every so often, with cool new ideas, than one big bang every 5 years. Of course I would prefer living dexes - and maybe once we're digital only (as you KNOW it will happen) that ill happen - but until then, I would like to get bits and pieces every so often, especially as it allows them to release new models etc mid ay through a lifecycle, and control it unlike with the CH issue

You also cant knock too much off them - Apples cut is horrific.

*I have 2nd hand knowledge of this from a very trustworthy source

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
Didn't they gather together all the chapter approved rules occasionally?

That helps a bit.

Yes, there was a compilation every year.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
In the codex - no. Just no. I would rather have little updates every so often, with cool new ideas, than one big bang every 5 years.

I'm pretty sure all the Tyranid dataslates were written before the 'nid codex hit the shelves if not before it went to the printers. I would have rather seen them either in the 'nid codex or at most as a single publication "Leviathan formations and missions". Regardless of Apple's cut, you can't tell me it was split in to 3 publications for any purpose beyond nickle and diming people (though at $15 a piece it's hard to say nickle and dime, lol).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
In the codex - no. Just no. I would rather have little updates every so often, with cool new ideas, than one big bang every 5 years.

I'm pretty sure all the Tyranid dataslates were written before the 'nid codex hit the shelves if not before it went to the printers. I would have rather seen them either in the 'nid codex or at most as a single publication "Leviathan formations and missions". Regardless of Apple's cut, you can't tell me it was split in to 3 publications for any purpose beyond nickle and diming people (though at $15 a piece it's hard to say nickle and dime, lol).

To be fair the Nid codex would of costed $40+ more if that was the case and imagine the cries then! my god it would of melted a server lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
Didn't they gather together all the chapter approved rules occasionally?

That helps a bit.

Yes, there was a compilation every year.

I wonder if that will happen in the future.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Digital only - for a damn good reason. Costs. NO minimum print runs. NO logistics headaches. NO waiting around to fit into print schedules. Yes you can have PoD now, but that is *expensive* - making even Apples 30% cut on the store seem reasonable - and you still have logistics issues.

Digital-only doesn't necessarily have to exclude hard copy... just let the customer print it themselves.

We used to have free PDFs available on the GW site with new rules for apoc formations, frankly they're mad to not be promoting model sales like that again with free downloads for 40k proper.

bodazoka wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
In the codex - no. Just no. I would rather have little updates every so often, with cool new ideas, than one big bang every 5 years.

I'm pretty sure all the Tyranid dataslates were written before the 'nid codex hit the shelves if not before it went to the printers. I would have rather seen them either in the 'nid codex or at most as a single publication "Leviathan formations and missions". Regardless of Apple's cut, you can't tell me it was split in to 3 publications for any purpose beyond nickle and diming people (though at $15 a piece it's hard to say nickle and dime, lol).

To be fair the Nid codex would of costed $40+ more if that was the case and imagine the cries then! my god it would of melted a server lol

The actual army rules content of all the dataslates could be summarised in a page, the missions and stuff a few more pages but I don't really think the missions should go in the codex anyway. It wouldn't cost $40+ more.

If you released the Leviathan fluff, rules and missions as a supplement instead of 3 dataslates, it would be about, I dunno, 40 pages or less. Maybe $20-30 worth of content.

Saying "10+ formations!" makes it sound like a lot of content, but all those formations amount to very little actual content.

I will admit I don't place a high monetary value on page after page of fluff. A bit of fluff to set the scene and then give me the rules. I think fluff books are better suited to their own separate release or hell just make a proper Leviathan codex like the other ones we have.

The reason one is loved and the other hated:

Chapter Approved was available in White Dwarf, rolled into the cost of the monthly magazine (and also available as a compilation).

Dataslates are separate purchases, and often relatively overpriced, while still having the same amount of relative content in most cases.


You have something which added to the perceived value of White Dwarf being removed from White Dwarf (when WD is already perceived as being pretty empty of value) and sold on its own, for more money. In addition, being in WD allowed the dedicated GW fan to read the fluff and rules for every Chapter Approved, just by committing to a magazine subscription. Now, you either have to be ignorant of new rules and new fluff, or lay out for every dataslate drib and drab.

It's not the content.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
The actual army rules content of all the dataslates could be summarised in a page, the missions and stuff a few more pages but I don't really think the missions should go in the codex anyway. It wouldn't cost $40+ more.

If you released the Leviathan fluff, rules and missions as a supplement instead of 3 dataslates, it would be about, I dunno, 40 pages or less. Maybe $20-30 worth of content.

Saying "10+ formations!" makes it sound like a lot of content, but all those formations amount to very little actual content.

I will admit I don't place a high monetary value on page after page of fluff. A bit of fluff to set the scene and then give me the rules. I think fluff books are better suited to their own separate release or hell just make a proper Leviathan codex like the other ones we have.

If the data slates were released as a codex supplement it would be around $40 Australian ($1 a page as per the other books). Compared to a supplement we are getting less fluff content and more rules content for less cost with data slates. Is that not something you would prefer considering as admitted you don't place value on fluff? Hell you as a non fluff person can make it even cheaper and just cherry pick the formations that have better rules!

Summarizing the dataslate's to one page would look terrible!

Aussie pricing is not a good comparison point for the rest of the world. I can see why, on a pure pricing model, you might prefer a digital release; for the rest of us, not even the new hardcover codex is running $1/page.

You can read an ePub file in Crome with an app or convert it to a PDF with an online conversion tool. They are not as good as the enhanced versions but get are good enough

As a Tyranid player, my major problem with our dataslates is that they're so obviously a cash-grab and an excuse to do a bad job on the Codex itself.

As a Tyranid player, my major problem is that the Codex is too expensive at £30, let alone any dataslates.

I really really wish GW would put out rules only version of the codexes, smaller, lighter and cheaper, like they did with the main rulebook.

I actually think the new hardcover codices are quite pretty and would be happy to pay $40 for them. $80 on the other hand...

 Kilkrazy wrote:
As a Tyranid player, my major problem is that the Codex is too expensive at £30, let alone any dataslates.

I really really wish GW would put out rules only version of the codexes, smaller, lighter and cheaper, like they did with the main rulebook.

If they did that, they wouldn't be able to justify the huge markup. Who am I kidding, of course they could, it would just be less believable, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I actually think the new hardcover codices are quite pretty and would be happy to pay $40 for them. $80 on the other hand...

I'm not a fan of the hardcover in general because they are more annoying to flip through when you're playing a game or putting together an army list (of course that could be greatly alleviated if GW didn't spread rules through vastly too many locations in each codex).

The reason I don't like GW hardbacks more specifically is because they increase the price further when 95% of the time I just want the rules, they could be black and white in a cheap booklet for all I care. The other 5% of the time when I do want a nice hard cover book, I'd be happy to buy it separately.

That is the point. Veterans don't need the fluff and modelling stuff, only the rules. And if you are a veteran fluff fan, there is Black Library.

Publishing as a hardback is an excuse to bump the price. Codexes used to cost an average £15 for 5th edition softback books, which contained basically the same content as the £30 hardbacks do now. (Some have increased in number of pages, e.g. Tau, but as an owner of the two previous Tau books I don't want or need all the new fluff.)

As a returning player who used to have a White Dwarf subscription back in the day, I think dataslates are a great idea. Granted, the price is steeper and the organisation of them could be better - like gathering all the Tyranid dataslates together in one bundle that's cheaper than buying them piecemeal. I'm hoping they start releasing chapter/craftworld/corsair/regiment etc. -specific rules with them, like they did with Index Astartes. It would make playing fluffy lists more competitive.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
That is the point. Veterans don't need the fluff and modelling stuff, only the rules. And if you are a veteran fluff fan, there is Black Library

I disagree, as I am a veteran and I enjoy the fluff and modelling stuff in the codex.