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Give me some ideas here dakka, I'm trying to make the most competitive DA list I can and this is what I'm looking at so far

HQ:
200 Sammael
85 Librarian w/ Bike
289 5x Ravenwing Command Squad w/ Banner of Fortitude, 1x Ravenwing Grenade Launcher
219 5x Ravenwing Command Squad w/ Ravenwing Company Banner, 1x Ravenwing Grenade Launcher

Troops:
105 3x Ravenwing Attack Squadron w/ 2x melta, Melta Bombs
105 3x Ravenwing Attack Squadron w/ 2x melta, Melta Bombs
105 3x Ravenwing Attack Squadron w/ 2x melta, Melta Bombs

Fast Attack:
246 6x Ravenwing Black Knights w/ 1x Grenade Launcher
246 6x Ravenwing Black Knights w/ 1x Grenade Launcher
246 6x Ravenwing Black Knights w/ 1x Grenade Launcher

Troops are pretty much suicide units on this one being the only downside. I've heard bikes are still the way to go for DA competitive, but not sure how to do it yet. Any suggestions or such?

A few Black Knights are fine, but remember they still fairly easy to kill. I'd stick with just one command squad and possibly one other unit of BKs, and start maxing out troops. Attack Bikes (with MMs) are amazing for this list, as you can easily take 12 fast scoring units. A dark shroud is also pretty snazzy, albeit only against armies that don't ignore cover.

Reserve the attack bikes (as many as you feel comfortable doing) then let them arrive piece meal, doing you're best to keep them hidden (although if you see a juicy target for the MM and can afford to leave the bike vulnerable, I'd take the shot). Ravenwing are still one of the best MSU armies out there, and are still fairly close to top tier.

by maxing troops your saying 6 3 man squads of ravens w/ attack bikes in all 6. That could work really well. I still like the idea of having the fort banner though since that does give me more survivability for the army against ignores cover stuff

yeah, 6x3 troops w/ attack bikes. You can still keep the fort banner with the one command squad (you'd just lose the RW banner). Personally, I'd run the devastation banner, as you're going to feel you're loss of firepower from dead units less. Also, Rad grenade launcher + dev banner + lots of TL bolters = dead wraithknights

I already have a list similar to the one you are talking about for 2k games. Don't remember points off the top of my head, but its something like

samael
librarian w/ bike, ML2, power field
Ravenwing command squad w/ banner of devastation, 2x grenade launchers, apothecary

6x Ravenwing Bikes w/ 2x plasma, AB w/ MM
6x Ravenwing Bikes w/ 2x plasma, AB w/ MM
6x Ravenwing Bikes w/ 2x plasma, AB w/ MM
6x Ravenwing Bikes w/ 2x plasma, AB w/ MM
6x Ravenwing Bikes w/ 2x melta
6x Ravenwing Bikes w/ 2x melta

Darkshroud


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downside I have to this army is that anytime hell drakes show up or anything say goodbye to a squad at a time. I could change it up a bit for 2 command squads one with fort and one with deva, but that is spendy.

Bikes are certainly the way to go for competitive DA.

Spamming black knights, like your first list, and the standard of devastation are both viable.

I wouldn't take plasma gun on your RAS though, at 42 points they are just as expensive as a black knight...

Personally, I think indigojack is wrong. Black knights are probably the best unit in the dex. You literally can't have too many.

As for the standard RAS, don't take plasma for the love of god. Black knights have twin linked plasma, and skilled rider, and a Corvus hammer, and are just better all round. I preferred the first list. But I would drop a black knight from each squad, drop the melta bombs and probably drop the banner. Then buy yourself some MM attack bikes. Alternatively only take 1 command squad in maximise your troops.

Personally I think the banner of devastation is toilet. I've tried to make it work in a bike army, it doesn't. The range means you have to bunch. And in an army that relies on speed and being able to out manoeuvre the enemy, you lose that by trying to make best use of the banner. Don't take it. The squad carrying it can't even make use of it. An absolute points sink.

If you do want dark shrouds, they're good. But as the only AV unit out there, it'll die. Fast.

Hope this helps

One thing I have learned playing black knights is keep them in reserve. Outflanking black knights is the best way to use them. Max out 3 troop squads and fill the rest with BK and hold them in reserve to come on the board and annihlate whatever is in front of them. Make sure you have enough units to hold all of your knights in reserve.

Khaine:
The banner is really hit or miss honestly. It does indeed group your army up pretty badly so when those blast templates start raining down, kiss a lot of your army goodbye. On the same note I have had some really good luck with the standard also just by the amount of sheer firepower that you can suppress the enemy with.
Big Blind:
The only reason the 2nd list has the plasma in it is because it gives me some plasma in the list other than the command squads ones. I agree whole heartedly with you on plasma sucking on normal bikes. If I have more black knights I would definitely use melta spam. I will post a list here after work that I was considering for the 1850 so I can see my codex. I think that it could work.


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HQ:
200 Sammael
155 Librarian w/ bike, ML2, Power Field Generator
289 5x Ravenwing Command Squad w/ Banner of Fortitude, 1x Ravenwing Grenade Launcher
269 5x Ravenwing Command Squad w/ Banner of Devastation, 1x Ravenwing Grenade Launcher

Troops:
236 6x Ravenwing w/ 2x Melta, Attack Bike w/ MM
236 6x Ravenwing w/ 2x Melta, Attack Bike w/ MM
236 6x Ravenwing w/ 2x Melta, Attack Bike w/ MM
236 6x Ravenwing w/ 2x Melta, Attack Bike w/ MM


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That adds survivability and still takes advantage of the banners and adds survivability while not losing much of my field presence.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Personally, I think indigojack is wrong. Black knights are probably the best unit in the dex. You literally can't have too many.

I never said they were bad, but they're not scoring and are not any more survivable than ravenwing bikers. They're also 1.5x more expensive and not scoring (so important that I said it twice). Low model count armies suffer from not being able to put out the firepower to handle horde armies. It's the same reason that my deathwing generally lose to tyranids and orks. That's what makes the dev banner so great on RW. It gives you the fire power you need to deal with lots of infantry.