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So I was wondering about the assassin murder squad formation for apoc. the vindicare assassin has a shield breaker round, which gets rid of invuln saves. What does it work against? can it destroy holofields? can it take an iron halo or shield eternal model?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
which gets rid of invuln saves. What does it work against?

Invulnerable saves. You've got the answer right there.
Holo fields are not Invulnerable saves.
Storm Shields do give an Invulnerable, so it works against those.
You'll have to look at each item individually. If it says it gives an Invulnerable save, then it works.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
which gets rid of invuln saves. What does it work against?

Invulnerable saves. You've got the answer right there.
Holo fields are not Invulnerable saves.
Storm Shields do give an Invulnerable, so it works against those.
You'll have to look at each item individually. If it says it gives an Invulnerable save, then it works.

Also other things, like when it gets rid of Invulnerable Saves. There are a number of Invulnerable Saves that it cannot touch.

Specifically, it breaks invulnerable saves granted by Wargear.

It doesn't destroy special rules.

So it can take away the invulnerable save of Terminator armor, but it doesn't take away Aura of Dark Glory.

Ohh okay, thanks. so part of my apoc plans went a little down the drain, but still I like it quite a bit. could screw up some dark eldar plans or something.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Specifically, it breaks invulnerable saves granted by Wargear.

It doesn't destroy special rules.

So it can take away the invulnerable save of Terminator armor, but it doesn't take away Aura of Dark Glory.

It also can't scratch Vehicle saves, as it happens when a wound is allocated.

Debatable, given that sometimes damage results are equivocated with wounds.

Strict RAW you are correct.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Specifically, it breaks invulnerable saves granted by Wargear.

It doesn't destroy special rules.

So it can take away the invulnerable save of Terminator armor, but it doesn't take away Aura of Dark Glory.

Aura of Dark Glory is listed on the Chaos Wargear list pages, so would be affected by the Shield Breaker.

Which raises a question: does it work against a piece of Wargear that gives a USR that gives an Invul save? Namely, the Crimson Slaughter item that grants the Daemon rule?

Using the causation that GW seems to like for Power through Pain, yes. It is still fairly direct

 grendel083 wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
which gets rid of invuln saves. What does it work against?

Invulnerable saves. You've got the answer right there.
Holo fields are not Invulnerable saves.
Storm Shields do give an Invulnerable, so it works against those.
You'll have to look at each item individually. If it says it gives an Invulnerable save, then it works.

I believe shieldbreakers only work against wargear invulnerable saves.

So storm shields, but not the Daemon USR.

It removes invulnerable saves granted by wargear. Wargear grants Daemon which grants an invulnerable save, so certainly it can be argued that the wargear grants the Inv save, even if it does not do so directly.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It removes invulnerable saves granted by wargear. Wargear grants Daemon which grants an invulnerable save, so certainly it can be argued that the wargear grants the Inv save, even if it does not do so directly.

That's not a sound argument. IF a model receives the Invulnerable save from a special rule it has received it from a special rule, not wargear. AFAIK (feel free to correct me) there isn't a piece of wargear that provides the daemon rule. IF there is, then that invulnerable save, not every invulnerable save provided by daemon is removed by shieldbreaker. Daemons have the USR Daemon, not a piece of wargear that gives daemon.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Specifically, it breaks invulnerable saves granted by Wargear.

It doesn't destroy special rules.

So it can take away the invulnerable save of Terminator armor, but it doesn't take away Aura of Dark Glory.

Would not terminator armour work like wargear in that respect? Or is it that invulns gained via armour do work?

A piece of Armor is Wargear.

And forgive me, I could have sworn the Aura of Dark Glory was a special rule.

Ok , I thought that was weird.

wow that is convoluted as heck

Scorpio - the aforementioned Crimson Slaughter wargear grants daemon, as I was referring to.