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Made in de
Despised Traitorous Cultist





Having played quite a few games against my usual opponent, who plays Tyranids, I'm still losing most of our games.

So here's my next try for a 1000 point game including some Daemons:

HQ
- Chaos Sorcerer
Mastery Level 3

- Herald of Tzeentch
Mastery Level 2

TROOPS
- Space Marines (10)
2 Plasma guns
Champion: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist
Rhino, Havoc Launcher

- Cultists (10)
8 Autoguns
1 Heavy stubber

- Bloodletters (10)

HEAVY SUPPORT
- Havocs (5)
2 Autocannons
2 Missile Launchers

-Forgefiend

FORTIFICATION
- Defense Line
Quad Gun

The plan is more or less to stand and shoot until the most dangerous monstrous creatures have been taken care of and then advance with my Marines. Bloodletters man the quad gun, herald presciences the forgefiend. Sorcerer will go for Telepathy or Biomancy.

Model-wise, my options include:
- Terminator Lord (1) with retinue (5)
- Noise Marines (5) with Blastmaster
- Aspiring Champions with any combination of weapons
- Dreadnought with Multi-Melta and Powerfist
- Cultists (10), Flamer
- Havocs (4) with 2 Lascannons and 2 Heavy Bolters
- Raptors (5), 2 melta guns
- Bloodthirster
- Flamers of Tzeentch (3)

How would you improve this list?
If it can't be salvaged, what would you recommend using the models listed?
Some proxying will be tolerated within reason.
Dragons will not be bought.

Thanks for your help!




"It's called treachery, Roboute. It works very well."

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Regardless of what you say you need Heldrakes and Obliterators. If you dont want to use them dont bother with CSM. Play loyalist.

Havocs need to be kept cheapish. Missiles are bad. Autocannons are probably the best bet if you decided to bother with them. MoN or no mark. Always buy a few extra guys to stand in front of the special weapon holders. I still never would use them except for manning a bunker type fortification.

Cultists dont need upgrades. Or deserve them. Again these are only useful units when cheap and you have an absolute plan for them. Possibly, maybe, the flamer upgrade considering your enemy. If they arent going to play wounds for a Character keep a unit of 10 in reserve until the very end to grab home objectives. They arent good for anything else, but for 50pts thats really good. In kill points though, dont bother. Keep them off the table as long as possible. They will only add points to the enemy otherwise.

Forgefiend is inferior to a Predator. Even with plasma cannons vs a horde army youd be better off with a Bullet Pred with heavy bolter sponsons and the Autocannon turret. And even both of these are inferior to Obliterators imho except at 1k pts the Bullet Pred is a major bargain in points. So there is that.

Bloodletters are the "worst" Daemon troop choice. Not terrible but they dont do anything one of the others doesnt do better. You might as well have use Plaguebearers to man the Quad and gain a 2+ cover save if they are just going to sit and do nothing. Which is a terrible use of points on Bloodletters. Pink Horrors would even be better with their limited range.

A sorcerer isnt going to work as well as a Lord, especially against Shadows of the Warp. Sorcerers are excellent 2nd HQs but not a good prime HQ in my opinion. Psykers have too much room for random failure. Plus they are not Fearless. Also Lords help make up for basic CSM troops being terrible cowards and make the best use of the 3 best artifacts: Burning Brand, Black Mace, and Axe of Blind Fury.

   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






uk

I agree on several points:

1. Psykers are bad against nids. SITW will hurt you so leave them at home against bugs. Can you proxy an aspiring champ as a lord with the burning brand? A torrent flamer will be useful against the hordes.

2. Blood letters are a waste. If you want daemons as an ally at 1000 points then everything you bring has to be worth something in its own right. There's no room for a troops tax that does so little vs say, horrors. If you do stick with daemons that is. I think with the models you've got for them they're not adding much here.

3. Nids love cover. If you bring noise marines they don't get any. So there's that.

4. Dreads against bugs, if equipped with a heavy flamer and mm can hurt the medium bugs quite nicely. Or pick off an injured bigger one. Striking at i4 will trump most big gribblies who while strong rely on their resilience in combat to survive the initial attacks to hit back. If you can take their last few wounds on the charge then no return blows. Just avoid hive tyrants...

5. A unit of 2 autocannons and 2 heavy bolters is 115 for havocs. That's some reasonable dakka for taking out medium bugs, denting hordes and adding wounds to bigger ones. And they work from turn one. Worth a shot IMO. Just don't overspend on them.

6. Your CSM champ is over equipped. He's got 40 points sunk in the plasma pistol and power fist. That's nearly 10 more cultists. Or 3 more marines(ish). I'd stick with a chain axe for ap4 and leave it at that. I see why you've got the rhino but I think you can afford to ditch it and put the points somewhere else- even nids can open rhinos at range and that's first blood gone right there.

7. Raptors. Melta-cide units are great for armour but less effective against nids. Double flamer with a combi flamer on the champ is good though. Jump in, flame a unit of troops then charge the rest. It'll slow the blob down if nothing else.

That's what I've got based on your models. Hope that helps!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/02 01:07:59


Masochist: Hit me!
Sadist: No.

Hive Fleet Kronos 3500pts
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1000pts and growing fast
P+M blog http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/338826.page

 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Dakka Pred vs Havocs

2 AC shots and 6 heavy bolters shots vs 8 AC shots or 12 heavy bolter shots. I would personally get 2 squads of havocs carrying 4 ac each and the 3rd havoc squad to have extra bullet catchers, 4 hb and stand in front of the ac squads to be removed as casualties.

I would listen to the 2 members above.

Baledrake is good for the S6 ap3 ignores cover template. You will be able to wound mc and the vector strikes can hit other fmc.

If you absolutely hate those turkeys then take noise marines.

I personally would get at least 2 small squad with a blast master in each. Then get atleast 1 large group of 10-20 noise marines with sonic blasters to bubble wrap the smaller group and stand in front of the blast master squads. The sonic blasters will do amazing vs. small nids because you can stand them and salvo 3 per gun! Thats 30 shots at ap5 that ignore cover!

   
 
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