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Hey everyone, so its been like 9 months since my first post. My CSM army is going well and just lately a friend has just started playing Orks.
Now he's new to 40k, and I still have loads to learn myself. Anyway we were playing a 500pt game (thats all he has atm) and my Chaos Lord was leading my army.
Now my Chaos Lord, I'm using the Kranon the Relentless model from DV, with a Power Axe (Axe of Blind Fury), Combi-Flamer and Juggernaut of Khorne conversion. I'll upload the model when its finished but pretty happy with it so far.
Anyway due to the stance of the Chaos Lord, I have him standing upon a throne/chariot like podium atop the juggernaut. This makes the model quite tall. Height of the juggernaut + height of Chaos Lord + maybe quarter an inch.
Anyway I had him behind cover, which was half an egg carton. The whole juggernaut was hidden behind cover, but the Chaos Lord was in fact in sight of the Orks.
I just wanted to clarify if the Chaos Lord would get a cover save or not?
In this case I didnt need to take it since his Sv his better anyway, but for future reference?
The rulebook says a model gets a cover save if more than 25% of its body is behind cover excluding wings, tails etc
Also just to clarify the "throne" the Chaos Lord is on, is not open, like I said it somewhat resembles a chariot
Thanks guys!

Consider the whole model. Krannon doesn't get any bonuses in the state you're describing him

However from the description yes, he should get a cover save. It'd only be a 6+ - The walls of that egg carton are paper thin!

(I'm kidding)

I'm sure this could be argued, but it caught my attention, so here's my take on this: As you stated, the "model" for the purposes of being 25% obscured is head, torso, arms, and legs. p8 then goes on to say that wargear doesn't count as part of the body, and neither do wings, tails, etc. As the demonic steeds are called out specifically as being wargear (C:CSM, p91), I would say that you do not consider the juggernaut part of the model for LOS purposes. Basically: A Chaos lord on juggernaut has the advantages that go with the juggernaut, including being taller and therefore getting to see over stuff better, but has to deal with the fact that he is also taller and more exposed, and less likely to get a cover save.

Ah okay, so in this case I suppose where in the book it says 25% of the models body (head, torso, arms, legs) or something along those lines
I would consider the juggernaut and the chaos lord as "one body"
I just thought that perhaps, because the Chaos Lord is higher, and was able to see over the cover, he would get an advantage for line of sight, since thats measured from the models eyes, and that the lack of a cover save might balance out that advantage
But thanks for that! Unless I missed it I dont think the rulebook has a section based around cover for models on cavalry/bikes. Other than that bikes get cover saves for moving

Thanks heaps for your opinions on this. Hopefully the argument won't ever actually arise, I usually play with friends, and we're usually able to resolve conflicts like this fairly easily. Also I think considering he gets a 3+ Armor Save, and I take the Sigil of Corruption which gives a 4++, there shouldn't be many situations in which I'll need to make a cover save, but just in case!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the July 2013 edition of White Dwarf, they featured a Warriors of Chaos army. One of the Heroes in the unit is riding a Disc of Tzeentch which is a good 4 models high at least. Which raised the question because that's so high up, would the underneath of the Disc count as cover? And what would be the disadvantage? I haven't played Fantasy but I'd assume in a 40k game its gonna have an affect on your shooting range

Athurion wrote:
Ah okay, so in this case I suppose where in the book it says 25% of the models body (head, torso, arms, legs) or something along those lines
I would consider the juggernaut and the chaos lord as "one body"
I just thought that perhaps, because the Chaos Lord is higher, and was able to see over the cover, he would get an advantage for line of sight, since thats measured from the models eyes, and that the lack of a cover save might balance out that advantage
But thanks for that! Unless I missed it I dont think the rulebook has a section based around cover for models on cavalry/bikes. Other than that bikes get cover saves for moving

Bikes have the USR Jink which gives them said cover save for moving.

Just a note, I wouldn't try to claim bonuses for the height of krannon - It could be called Modelling for advantage. However, if your opponent is hitting young krannon as well, I don't think this should come up.

nwabudikemorgan wrote:I'm sure this could be argued, but it caught my attention, so here's my take on this: As you stated, the "model" for the purposes of being 25% obscured is head, torso, arms, and legs. p8 then goes on to say that wargear doesn't count as part of the body, and neither do wings, tails, etc. As the demonic steeds are called out specifically as being wargear (C:CSM, p91), I would say that you do not consider the juggernaut part of the model for LOS purposes. Basically: A Chaos lord on juggernaut has the advantages that go with the juggernaut, including being taller and therefore getting to see over stuff better, but has to deal with the fact that he is also taller and more exposed, and less likely to get a cover save.

False. Riding a juggernaut is an option, not a wargear option. Juggernauts change the unit type to Cavalry, while offering some characteristic bonuses. (at least they do in C:CSM).

Athurion wrote:
In the July 2013 edition of White Dwarf, they featured a Warriors of Chaos army. One of the Heroes in the unit is riding a Disc of Tzeentch which is a good 4 models high at least. Which raised the question because that's so high up, would the underneath of the Disc count as cover? And what would be the disadvantage? I haven't played Fantasy but I'd assume in a 40k game its gonna have an affect on your shooting range

Think about this, if you removed a models base, would the model cease to be a model?
The answer is no. it would just be a model without a base.
The flying stand is part of the base, and thus does not count at all when trying to check LOS.

2000th post.

Grats on the 2000th post Scipio.
regarding the second bit about the WD quote, i'm unclear as to what you're getting at, so i'll leave it.

about the wargear part, i'm going from this:

Chaos Lord and Chaos Sorcerer only. Not available to models
wearing Terminator armour. These pieces of wargear are all
mutually exclusive. For example, a Chaos Lord with a Palanquin
of Nurgle cannot aLso take a jump pack.

seems to clearly say that the rewards are indeed wargear. nor arguing about type/stat changes

Would you give a thunderwolf the same? The 40k rules pool the stats of rider and mount unlike fantasy so it is not too out there to say that the model is the thing on a base not the little dude riding a bunch of wargear.