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Heyo,

Looking for some info before I start down the road of DM! Mainly for pathfinder, i've done some dnd 3rd edition versions as a player but moved so have no other DM's around etc to help me cruise into the DM seat for Pathfinder.

I basically want to know what I really need, or how to really organise myself so I can plan a decent campaign. I have a tablet to read PDFs from, some dice and the hardcover rulebook.

Just wanted to check a list of game mat (might make out of acetate and permanent marker / sticky tape), get some tokens, character sheets and a PDF of the the campaign.

Anything else crucial to getting started?

Have you played Pathfinder before? It's a very crunchy system(aka lots of numbers to crunch) so I'd recommend picking up the GM screen so you have all those tables laid out in front of you.

One thing that's nice is all the rules are available online for yourself and your players. A great site to bookmark is http://d20pfsrd.com/ which has most everything you'll need for reference except for the adventure paths(Pathfinder's term for modules). I also found this very useful as a first-time Pathfinder player for creating my character, so you may want to send this link to your players: http://www.instructables.com/id/Creating-a-Character-Using-the-Pathfinder-Roleplay/

My only other advice is either use one of the excellent published adventure paths for your first outing(the anniversary edition of Rise of the Runelords is always a good place to start) or make sure you've got your encounters and NPCs well planned out.

Yet to play pathfinder. Definitely thinking a chessex game mat and gm screen to get started and maybe finding or making some tokens. Are there any great acrylic tokens for pathfindermor dnd one can grab for cheap? Otherwise I might design and laser cut some myself, would just eat into other project time if I have to.

3E/PF doesn't really need tokens.

If you are starting from scratch, I might suggest running some modules or an adventure path. Total free-form, sandbox might be a little rough for a new GM.

From a plot standpoint, you need to be one step ahead of the players. And players tend to scatter off on random directions. The best games give you choices of what to do, but tie everything together and guide you where you should be going for the campaign. Hide the rails. If players feel like they are being shoehorned in a direction, some will buck the system just to screw with you.

Think of all the bad GMs you’ve had/heard about. Try not to be that guy.

From a game aids standpoint, you don’t need anything, but many things are nice to have. Sketching the map on scrap paper will work fine for most cases, to give people a rough idea of where things are. A little fast and loose, yes, but you don’t want to get bogged down in the rules anyway.

A whiteboard is nice to have. A big one for maps, or a small one for initiative orders. Magnetic ones with write-on magnets you can shuffle around when people ready/delay actions is nice.

How experienced are you players? That will make a big difference on exactly how much lube your story is going to need...

As a counterpoint to the "you don't need anything" advice, I'd strongly advise having:

- a chessex 1" grid mat
- some markers
- some miniatures

Although not as much a tactical miniatures game as Fourth Edition, Third Edition (and therefore Pathfinder) combat is very much about who is where when. While you don't have to use the mat'n'minis, or at least that is the story one hears on the internet, you will save your group considerable time and confusion, and potentially draw the players deeper into the "gamier" aspects of play, if you use these supplies.

Now, you don't have to use (relatively) expensive PF minis, either. You can just as easily use paper and cardboard tokes:

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Vault-Essential-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786956313/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396885747&sr=8-1&keywords=dungeons+and+dragons+4th+edition+monster

The pathfinder starter box is wonderful. You'll definitely want a DM screen.

 Manchu wrote:
As a counterpoint to the "you don't need anything" advice, I'd strongly advise having:

- a chessex 1" grid mat
- some markers
- some miniatures

Although not as much a tactical miniatures game as Fourth Edition, Third Edition (and therefore Pathfinder) combat is very much about who is where when. While you don't have to use the mat'n'minis, or at least that is the story one hears on the internet, you will save your group considerable time and confusion, and potentially draw the players deeper into the "gamier" aspects of play, if you use these supplies.

Now, you don't have to use (relatively) expensive PF minis, either. You can just as easily use paper and cardboard tokes:

http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Vault-Essential-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786956313/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396885747&sr=8-1&keywords=dungeons+and+dragons+4th+edition+monster

While I agree that all this is nice, let me offer a counter-counter point.

I know this might sound odd, being that Dakka is primarily a wargameing forum, but there are times where the map and minis is bad for play. A lot of times, when the map comes out, the roleplaying stops, and the wargaming starts. Something that would be cinematic and cool doesn’t happen because you were 5’ short. You focus on getting the full attack action, rather then swinging on the chandelier. Players will spend 15 minutes figuring the exact best position to lay down the fireball. Play bogs down.

It might be the members of my group. We have one min-max munchkin who plays the grid for maximal advantage. Another guy who calculates every option to figure out which one is best, and takes his sweet time to do so. We also have people who play wacky, mostly useless character because of cool, but tactically inefficient, tricks. Going gridless speeds some of this stuff up, and lets the GM fudge stuff so it’s fun for everyone.

The nimble rouge can tumble into the flank.
The wizard can just say “I wing the fireball into the largest cluster of orcs”

And then play can move on.

We use a grid. With minis, some custom purchased and painted specifically for the campaign. Every time we break the map out play stops. Clear the table, draw the room, gather minis, set start positions. It make the war game phase of pathfinder more fair, but at the cost of slowing down the story.

I will admit that these days I’m more attracted to rules light systems like Savage World, rather then crunch heavy systems. So that does bias my opinion quite a bit. IMHO the mechanics are there as a framework to hang a fun story on, and provide some structure to the game. They are best when unobtrusively out of sight. Nothing showcases the mechanical aspects of a system like a battlemat.

3E/PF is what it is: an exercise in game mastery. The min/maxers and power gamers aren't doing it wrong; indeed they hew closer to what we on Dakka call the RAW than anyone. My further argument would be that they're also closer to the RAI than anyone.

If you want your play to stay in the theatre of the mind, you should avoid games that turn on tactical combat and, more specifically, "5-foot steps."

@Nevelon: It sounds like you might be happier with OSR type D&D than the modern stuff.

 Manchu wrote:
3E/PF is what it is: an exercise in game mastery. The min/maxers and power gamers aren't doing it wrong; indeed they hew closer to what we on Dakka call the RAW than anyone. My further argument would be that they're also closer to the RAI than anyone.

If you want your play to stay in the theatre of the mind, you should avoid games that turn on tactical combat and, more specifically, "5-foot steps."

@Nevelon: It sounds like you might be happier with OSR type D&D than the modern stuff.

I don’t want to derail this thread with game theory philosophy, but the GM has a lot of say in what can be done with the same set of rules. My group is a little odd, we have multiple people who take turns GMing. Even using the same system (pathfinder) there is a huge gap between a by-the-numbers GM and a hang loose one. As long as everyone is having fun, it’s all good.

I’m a wargamer who happens to spend most of his hobby time playing RPGs. It doesn’t bother me. But that does bring up a point on "How to GM”:

Know your players. Do they want a hack and slash dungeon crawl? Political intrigue? Epic heroes destined to save the world, or just adventurers out to score the next dungeon? Some players are going to be bored when the map comes out, but lap up clues and puzzles. Others just want to stab things. Odds are, you are going to have a mix. One of the best ways to handle this is the rotating spotlight. Make sure everyone has some time in the sun. And try to keep everyone at the table involved at some level.

@Nevelon: Nah, we don't have to get deep into theory. But it is good to know your ruleset.

@OP: Pathfinder is a game mastery ruleset. That means there are lots of options, some better and some worse, and it's up to the players (including the DM) to figure out which builds and tactics work best. There is a decent amount of pay off for knowing the rules well.

In terms of combat, PF is pretty exhaustive as a ruleset. I spent a lot of time DMing PF and its forbear, D&D 3.5, and one important lesson I learned was that you should require your players to know the rules of their feats and spells, etc, that they are using because things really get bogged down if you as the DM have to constantly figure out how everybody's character sheet works plus all the monster stuff. Let your players co-DM, as it were, when it comes to knowing/remembering/explaining the nuts and bolts.

Also, this ruleset was designed with mats and minis in mind. For proof, look no further than the starter set -- which contains some glossy paper grid maps and carboard standee miniatures. Not using them is (apparently) possible but I guess you could theoretically even play chess with no board or pieces. IMO, doing such is just a hassle.

As the DM, you have the lion's share of responsibility for making sure this rather complex ruleset moves along in play at a reasonable clip. Combat takes a while; that's just the way it is (even for groups with lots of experience with the game) so don't get discouraged. By using some supplies and allowing/asking the other players to take responsibility for knowing their rules, you'll be making the best start.

One good example is Opportunity Attacks. The sooner everyone, including you, has a good grasp of this mechanic, the faster and more fun play will be. Work together to master these rules and avoid the "what I say goes" mentality, which is a great temptation for beginning DMs. Your primary task is to host an adventure story, not play against the PCs. PF has a lot of rules to help you with this, especially around the subject of encounter balance. Take the time to understand and use these rules as a group.

I feel bad for not checking this sooner! Love the replies.

We are all noobs with rpgs I've only done 1 3.5 adventure arc over a few months, one guy did one session and everyone else has never seen it but are experienced with me and wargaming and boardgames except one guys gf if she decides to jump in.

I want to give a good intro and started reading runelords but while it looks really fun, looks likeit depends on knowledge.

I'm fine with drawing up distance as I think missing can be as good as hitting, especially if a pc is in range and an npc is being kept at length.

I definitely want a chessex mat and gm screen but might buy the mat factory second since getting one in aus seems impossible right now under $40. Was looking at some more books in beastiary 1 and 2 and the beastiary 1 box but I might look at the beginner box. I have the rulebook already but starting loose and slow might be better than runelords and beastiary box for a whole new group.

Long run I'll paint core minis for the main npcs in campaigns and ask everyone to grab a mini for their characters and prime it. Might also laser cut some tokens and stealth character markers myself as well