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Does anyone know anything about this? It will be fun if we can do so.

should be in ymdc

Codex states that SGT Chronus can be taken as tank upgrade in an Ultramarines list.

His fluff states that he's proficient in every piece of armor the chapter has. He can command any tank, sicaran, felblade, land raider or razorback

No, Chronus can NOT upgrade a Fellblade. His army list entry has the Ultramarines chapter icon, which means he can only be taken in an Ultramarines detachment (defined as a primary or allied detachment using Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines). A Fellblade is not an Ultramarines detachment, it is a separate LoW detachment.

 Peregrine wrote:
No, Chronus can NOT upgrade a Fellblade. His army list entry has the Ultramarines chapter icon, which means he can only be taken in an Ultramarines detachment (defined as a primary or allied detachment using Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines). A Fellblade is not an Ultramarines detachment, it is a separate LoW detachment.

I'm not sure you've even read Escalation if you're making a statement like that. It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes." There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, Chronus can NOT upgrade a Fellblade. His army list entry has the Ultramarines chapter icon, which means he can only be taken in an Ultramarines detachment (defined as a primary or allied detachment using Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines). A Fellblade is not an Ultramarines detachment, it is a separate LoW detachment.

I'm not sure you've even read Escalation if you're making a statement like that. It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes." There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

Fellblade is not a 40k LOW unit, its not even 40k approved, its a HH 30k model if i remember right... unless it was added in a FW book to allow it. ill happily stand corrected if i am wrong. (slight bias i hope i am, i have one nicely converted up for my CSM army )

 Mulletdude wrote:
It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes."

"Comes from the same codex as" is not the same thing as "is an Ultramarines detachment". A Predator tank in an allied Raven Guard detachment comes from the same codex as your Ultramarines primary detachment, but Chronus can not upgrade it since it is not part of an Ultramarines detachment.

Now, you would have a point if the current codex hadn't introduced the chapter tactics rules. Under a system like the old codex, where Chronus' rules might have said something like "may upgrade any C:SM tank", then it might have worked. But that's not how the rules work in the current codex.

There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

Nope, it's the exact opposite. The rules are perfectly clear that he can not upgrade a LoW tank.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:
It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes."

"Comes from the same codex as" is not the same thing as "is an Ultramarines detachment". A Predator tank in an allied Raven Guard detachment comes from the same codex as your Ultramarines primary detachment, but Chronus can not upgrade it since it is not part of an Ultramarines detachment.

Now, you would have a point if the current codex hadn't introduced the chapter tactics rules. Under a system like the old codex, where Chronus' rules might have said something like "may upgrade any C:SM tank", then it might have worked. But that's not how the rules work in the current codex.

There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

Nope, it's the exact opposite. The rules are perfectly clear that he can not upgrade a LoW tank.

I would actually accept Mulletdude's interpretation.
If you take it, it counts as it has been taken from your codex. So naturally it's part of your army in all ways. I would automatically count it as being an UM tank as your primary detachment is Ultramarines.
I haven't read the rules for this. It may not be RAW, but it is clearly RAI.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, Chronus can NOT upgrade a Fellblade. His army list entry has the Ultramarines chapter icon, which means he can only be taken in an Ultramarines detachment (defined as a primary or allied detachment using Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines). A Fellblade is not an Ultramarines detachment, it is a separate LoW detachment.

I'm not sure you've even read Escalation if you're making a statement like that. It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes." There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

Fellblade is not a 40k LOW unit, its not even 40k approved, its a HH 30k model if i remember right... unless it was added in a FW book to allow it. ill happily stand corrected if i am wrong. (slight bias i hope i am, i have one nicely converted up for my CSM army )

You won't find any unit marked LOW that also has a 40k approved stamp. Those are going to be mutually exclusive, as the 40k approved means it will take part of a normal force org slot and is approved for standard 40k use. This little snippet comes from Imperial Armor Volume 2: Second Edition: War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:
It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes."

"Comes from the same codex as" is not the same thing as "is an Ultramarines detachment". A Predator tank in an allied Raven Guard detachment comes from the same codex as your Ultramarines primary detachment, but Chronus can not upgrade it since it is not part of an Ultramarines detachment.

Now, you would have a point if the current codex hadn't introduced the chapter tactics rules. Under a system like the old codex, where Chronus' rules might have said something like "may upgrade any C:SM tank", then it might have worked. But that's not how the rules work in the current codex.

There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

Nope, it's the exact opposite. The rules are perfectly clear that he can not upgrade a LoW tank.

According to Chronus' rules, "Chronus is always bought as an upgrade and starts the game as commander of an Ultramarines Tank." The lord of war is considered to come from the same codex as your primary, and the marines have an additional clarification to which specific chapter they come from. Primary detachment UM will allow Chronus to command the Felblade, but Allied detachment will not, as the primary detachment the LOW comes from is not UM and therefore not eligible for Chronus to command.

Is Chronus an option for any tank in the book where you found the Fellblade?

there you go...

So its in the new book nice, did they add any other 30k tanks to it? or just the fellblade? like the glaive etc

and was it costed the same as in the HH books? just trying to avoid buying another book for fun when its the same in the one that i own already

edit: also 40k approved and LOW arent mutually exclusive, all the 40k approved models tell you what slot they go in be it heavy support FA etc etc, where this would be 40k approved LOW, because there is lots of vehicles in the HH stuff that doesnt just transfer over is what i meant

Cheers mate

 soomemafia wrote:
If you take it, it counts as it has been taken from your codex. So naturally it's part of your army in all ways. I would automatically count it as being an UM tank as your primary detachment is Ultramarines.

Sigh. No. See previous post about "from your codex" and "Ultramarines detachment" not being the same thing. A Fellblade counts as being from C:SM, nothing more. For example, Preferred Enemy (C:SM) will grant its bonuses against a Fellblade taken by an army with an Ultramarines primary detachment. Absolutely nothing in the rules even suggests that the LoW detachment gets the chapter tactics attributes of your primary detachment.

I haven't read the rules for this.

Then why are you posting in a topic about it?

It may not be RAW, but it is clearly RAI.

It is absolutely NOT clearly RAI. In fact I would argue the opposite, Chronus is clearly meant to upgrade one of the tanks listed in the codex, and it's rules lawyering to try to get him into a superheavy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mulletdude wrote:
The lord of war is considered to come from the same codex as your primary, and the marines have an additional clarification to which specific chapter they come from.

Again, same codex. NOT same chapter tactics. You're completely misunderstanding the chapter tactics rules. They add an additional attribute to your primary and/or allied detachment(s), they are not some special kind of sub-codex. This is like saying that because the units in your primary detachment have ATSKNF your primary detachment comes from Codex: ATSKNF.

Well, thanks you guys' answer. Looks like it is all about one single question. Can a SM unity taken as a UM unity. Well, seems like only SM need to face this problem.

 Peregrine wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:
If you take it, it counts as it has been taken from your codex. So naturally it's part of your army in all ways. I would automatically count it as being an UM tank as your primary detachment is Ultramarines.

Sigh. No. See previous post about "from your codex" and "Ultramarines detachment" not being the same thing. A Fellblade counts as being from C:SM, nothing more. For example, Preferred Enemy (C:SM) will grant its bonuses against a Fellblade taken by an army with an Ultramarines primary detachment. Absolutely nothing in the rules even suggests that the LoW detachment gets the chapter tactics attributes of your primary detachment.

The lord of war is considered to come from the same codex as your primary, and the marines have an additional clarification to which specific chapter they come from.

Any more questions?

I haven't read the rules for this.

Then why are you posting in a topic about it?

I posted because your arguments were improperly justified in my opinion, do I need a permission for that?

Peregrine is clearly correct here.

I play Ultramarines, so I dearly wish he could, but I think the answer lies in the rules description; Chronus is an upgrade for a TANK, not a vehicle, a tank. Does the Fellblade's description mention it being a tank, or just a super heavy vehicle?

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, Chronus can NOT upgrade a Fellblade. His army list entry has the Ultramarines chapter icon, which means he can only be taken in an Ultramarines detachment (defined as a primary or allied detachment using Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines). A Fellblade is not an Ultramarines detachment, it is a separate LoW detachment.

I'm not sure you've even read Escalation if you're making a statement like that. It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes." There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

Fellblade is not a 40k LOW unit, its not even 40k approved, its a HH 30k model if i remember right... unless it was added in a FW book to allow it. ill happily stand corrected if i am wrong. (slight bias i hope i am, i have one nicely converted up for my CSM army )

FW FAQ'd it into an escalation unit.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA2faq.pdf

Doesn't the LoW stamp in the IA books refer to 30k? Those LoW cannot be used in 40k, iirc, unless specified otherwise.

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
Chronus is an upgrade for a TANK, not a vehicle, a tank. Does the Fellblade's description mention it being a tank, or just a super heavy vehicle?

Check mate.

viewfinder wrote:
Is Chronus an option for any tank in the book where you found the Fellblade?

there you go...

Hah,you win sir. None of the super heavies are listed as tanks. Definite RAI that they're considered tanks, but they're not xD

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, Chronus can NOT upgrade a Fellblade. His army list entry has the Ultramarines chapter icon, which means he can only be taken in an Ultramarines detachment (defined as a primary or allied detachment using Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines). A Fellblade is not an Ultramarines detachment, it is a separate LoW detachment.

I'm not sure you've even read Escalation if you're making a statement like that. It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes." There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

Fellblade is not a 40k LOW unit, its not even 40k approved, its a HH 30k model if i remember right... unless it was added in a FW book to allow it. ill happily stand corrected if i am wrong. (slight bias i hope i am, i have one nicely converted up for my CSM army )

FW FAQ'd it into an escalation unit.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA2faq.pdf

Doesn't the LoW stamp in the IA books refer to 30k? Those LoW cannot be used in 40k, iirc, unless specified otherwise.

IA isnt HH imperial armor are the 40k books, and the 30k books have sections of LOW.

thats why i was asking if any of the other ones had been brought over, i know in my local group im safe playing with the Glaive in a 40k game but yeah....

I regularly run both of my 30k armies in normal 40k. Nobody cares.

yeah it was more a concern over the superheavies that it has

i must say fulgrim makes a lovely PA lord LOL... total missues of the model

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
No, Chronus can NOT upgrade a Fellblade. His army list entry has the Ultramarines chapter icon, which means he can only be taken in an Ultramarines detachment (defined as a primary or allied detachment using Chapter Tactics: Ultramarines). A Fellblade is not an Ultramarines detachment, it is a separate LoW detachment.

I'm not sure you've even read Escalation if you're making a statement like that. It says on page 34 of Escalation under the Lords of War in Warhammer 40k, that "The Lords of War unit described in a datasheet is considered to come from the same codex as your primary detachment for all rules purposes." There is no doubt he can be taken as a tank commander.

Fellblade is not a 40k LOW unit, its not even 40k approved, its a HH 30k model if i remember right... unless it was added in a FW book to allow it. ill happily stand corrected if i am wrong. (slight bias i hope i am, i have one nicely converted up for my CSM army )

FW FAQ'd it into an escalation unit.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA2faq.pdf

Doesn't the LoW stamp in the IA books refer to 30k? Those LoW cannot be used in 40k, iirc, unless specified otherwise.

IA isnt HH imperial armor are the 40k books, and the 30k books have sections of LOW.

thats why i was asking if any of the other ones had been brought over, i know in my local group im safe playing with the Glaive in a 40k game but yeah....

Ah I see. I misread that FW FAQ on Lords of War. Ok cool, that should make some games...interesting.