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Currently, I have:

Tiger Soldier - HMG
Tiger Soldier - Combi Rifle
Tiger Soldier - Boarding Shotgun
Oniwaban Shinobu Kitsune
Daofei - HMG

What would you recommend expanding into to make a legal and fun force?

Well with that you are sitting at 205 points and will need some orders so I would try to squeeze in some cheap order Zhanshi come to mind.

Some more knowledgeable players will come along with better suggestions soon enough though

 NuclearMessiah wrote:
Well with that you are sitting at 205 points and will need some orders so I would try to squeeze in come cheap order Zhanshi come to mind.

That's a good call. Zhanshi can fill in your order pool, give you cheap LT options, and cover your flanks. Getting a Zanshi Hacker can help for Missions as well.

Grabbing a Yisheng might be good, he's a Doctor, and rather useful. As is the Tokusetsu Butai. Doctor/Engineer.

If you don't want/like the Zanshi models, you could grab the Keisotsu Butai or Celestial Guard instead. Both are cheap units that you can use to bolster your forces.

I don't like the ordinary Zhanshi's, but I like the Doctor/Engineer support pack ones. Celestial guard look good too, so I might look into them.

What else shall I look into expanding into for more variance (e.g. using fewer Tiger soldiers)?

Yu Jing has excellent choices for Heavy Infantry. You already have a Daofei, the Invincibles, Shang Ji, Wu Ming... and my personal favorite, the Hac Tao, are all solid, scary troops. I'm a big fan of the Hac Tao's look, as well as him being a Thermal Optic Heavy Infantry that can be a Hacker. It can really ruin people's day.

You also might want to look at the Remotes, as you have some interesting options there, and they are rahter cool looking. On top of that, they tend to be relatively inexpensive (points wise).

Bao Troops look cool, and they can get you some Multispectral Visors, which can be useful for dealing with annoying Camo troops.

Are you looking for stuff that you think looks cool? Or just things to fill out your army list more? What do you think about the Japanese forces? Have you thought about running a Sectorial force?

 Daba wrote:
I don't like the ordinary Zhanshi's, but I like the Doctor/Engineer support pack ones. Celestial guard look good too, so I might look into them.

What else shall I look into expanding into for more variance (e.g. using fewer Tiger soldiers)?

If you're not in to Zhanshi, then grab some Keisotsu (better in vanilla lists anyways) and Celestial Guard (best generalist hacker for the points we can get and great source of smoke). Zhanshi are kind of lackluster and their major niche (prior to the new tourney rules on WIP reveals) was to hide a WIP13 lieutenant. If you are still playing with the normal rules where the LT's WIP is known, they have their uses; if not grab Keisotsu and Celestial Guard. Also, take a look at Kuang Shi (once you get a Celestial Guard with a control device). They are impetuous, but they are also regular and weigh in at 5 points. They tend to be risky orders, but they can be well worth it in an army with so many pricey specialists. Either way, you need to grab line troops; running without any is an uphill battle.

When it comes down to it, you will tend to want to have as close to 10 orders as you can in your main combat group. This is hard to do and not super-economical if your whole force is made up of specialists.

An Infinity force lives and dies on efficient use of the action economy. Most specialists are what one would term "action-hungry" and can easily eat 3-4 orders from the pool on their own. This is why line troopers are needed.

1) They provide orders at a cheap going-rate
2) They can give you more boots on the ground and more eyes on the field; this translates to more ARO threats which slows the enemy down
3) They are efficient for hiding a lieutenant

Making a force entirely out of specialists will have a few knock-on effects. Chances are you wont be sitting at 10 orders, not only can your opponent act more but (assuming they are at 10) they can force each of your actions to be less efficient. With less board control and less maneuverability, you will basically be playing the game at a small handicap that widens as you take casualties. More than that, with so many specialists, most will end up being order-starved and not be worth the points you dropped on them.

So the first things you should grab are some line troops (and feel free to grab proxies if the existing ones don't do it for you). In general, most 300 point lists will contain 2-4 of them.

So your major choices are:
- Zhanshi (not your style and lackluster as a unit in the vanilla list)
- Keisotsu (may also not be your style; but as a statline these guys are great go-to units for line infantry)
- Celestial Guard (limited to 2 in vanilla, but they make great basic units, good LT choices and have a great hacker profile)
- Kuang Shi (cheap but unreliable without some babysitting and careful deployment; requires a Celestial Guard with a control device)

Once you have 3 or so line troops settled, you can move on to a few more specialists.

You already have two of our star players (Tiger Soldier and Daofei) so you are good on that front. Others you may want to look in to are:
- Guilang (cheap and super versatile, I recommend the basic non-sniper version since you can make it a minelayer or forward observer)
- Su-Jian (this thing is half fighter jet and half rock star; it is maneuverable, fast, and super versatile; able to backstab just about anything before slinking back in to cover to try from another angle)
- Shang Ji Incvincible (normal invincibles are pants, these are not; fast, well armoured and with a great weapon array; they make good LTs and just good basic HI in general)
- Support Pack (everyone can use more doctors and engineers in their life!)
- Some remotes (they're all good though I'd recommend Rui Shi or Lu Duan for their versatility, but the total reaction HMG remote is a good choice as well)
- Hsien Warrior HMG (she is another heavy hitter when combined with smoke from a monk or Celestial Guard; great assault unit)
- Shaolin Monk (5 points for a smoke lobbing, camo shredding ace in the hole; irregular and impetuous but works well with our units)
- Aragoto (fast, aggressive and very nasty; they can also make great specialists when made in to a hacker)
- Hac Tao (TO camo + heavy infantry is love; I recommend the HMG version for maximum potential killage)

Beyond that, it will kind of depend on where you want to go. If you are mostly sticking with vanilla then you are off to a good start. But if you want to go with a sectorial then grabbing some more units from their ranks is a good idea. The starter packs for the sectorials offer good starting points.

Are hackers essential, as they seem to add a lot of cost in points to the basic model?

What are important factors for deciding who your Lieutenant is going to be?

Maybe I'll try this army:

eNozMlRVNTYwUDXRM1U1NFQzUjOsMbJQMwRSxmpmYBLMhgpZQigzMGWuZgwmQXoMDcCqzUESqmUmABZbEsk=

 Daba wrote:
Are hackers essential, as they seem to add a lot of cost in points to the basic model?

What are important factors for deciding who your Lieutenant is going to be?

Maybe I'll try this army:

YU JING
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 0 0

DÀOFĚI HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 61)
SHINOBU Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0.5 | 50)
CELESTIAL GUARD (Kuang Shi Control Device) Combi Rifle + Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 13)
CELESTIAL GUARD Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
Zhanshi,ĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (15)
MECA-Engineer Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (15)
YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (3)
TIGER SOLDIER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (26)
TIGER SOLDIER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
SHÀNG JÍ Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Shock CCW. (42)
TIGER SOLDIER Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (27)

4.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open with Army 4

Here made it easier for us to analyze

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Daba wrote:
I don't like the ordinary Zhanshi's, but I like the Doctor/Engineer support pack ones. Celestial guard look good too, so I might look into them.

What else shall I look into expanding into for more variance (e.g. using fewer Tiger soldiers)?

- Su-Jian (this thing is half fighter jet and half rock star; it is maneuverable, fast, and super versatile; able to backstab just about anything before slinking back in to cover to try from another angle)

That line about the Su-Jian made me grin.

About the list, if you're going to take a Celestial Guard with a Kuang Shi Control device... you should take some Kuang Shi in your list. >.<

 Daba wrote:
Are hackers essential, as they seem to add a lot of cost in points to the basic model?

Hackers effectiveness depends alot on army composition - yours and your opponents, and objectives.

If you're playing YAMS or just an Annihilation game, they're not going to add much in regard to objectives. If your playing Paradiso or ITS scenarios, you may need one to actually complete some objectives.

For army composition, if you want to bring remotes, you'll flat out need a hacker or a TAG. Remotes aren't available without one. If you are facing an opponent who uses heavy infantry, TAGs or remotes (or all three), hackers come in handy. They can immobilise heavy infantry and remotes by hacking them, and they can immobilise or possess TAGs. Just let that sink in a bit - possess TAGs. It's difficult and order intensive, but possible.

Those hacking abilities are why they're expensive.

So their inclusion is down to what you want to take in your army, what you expect your opponent to take, and what objectives you're expecting. They're not an auto include (nothing in Infinity is), but there's strong reasons you take one. You just need to figure out if it's worth it to you.

Personally, I always take a Barid hacker. One of my regular opponents plays Vedic heavy Aleph, so I see lots of Dakinis and Asura. Lobbing a marker across the board to immobilise a HMG Dakini is pretty handy. My other regular opponent plays HI heavy Yu Jing, which I have used the same tactic above against. Immobilizing a Wu Ming and casually stepping out in front of it to put some rifle rounds into it is always good.

Lets be honest, you just take a Barid because they look badass.

Absolutely. But it doesn't hurt that it's a WIP 14, BTS-3 hacker with markers. For 17pts.

I read just about every forum I could before I started purchasing. When I began Yu Jing, I grabbed the starter and the Tiger Blister for a good place to start and have flexibility for learning. From there I grabbed up an Oniwaban, the Guifeng and HMG Hac Tao. All the while knowing that I wanted the Su Jian and the HMG Daofei. Now, I have all of those and what I believe is a great amount of flexability given all the different loadouts I can chose. I regularly use my Celestial as the controller loadout for the smoke and I plan on getting some Khang Shi to optimize those points. Can't beat 5pt orders =).
I jockeyed back and forth over recommendations vs looks. I would write down a list of recommended models then go look at them, crossing off the ones I liked the look of less and that's how I built my army.

Hac Tao are expensive (points), but they do look cool.

I'll be looking into getting some light infantry next then, probably Celestial guards/support pack.

Started painting them now too:

Nice start Daba!

I have to say I'm a fan of the color scheme so far, but I may be a little biased.

How do Kuang-Shi actually work?

What else could I use the Celestial Guard controller model as if I don't take Kuang-Shi?

Kuang Shi are cheap orders/suicide bombs. You need a Kuang Shi Control Device in the same Combat Group as the Kuang Shi to unlock them. Only one available is in the Celestial Guards.

Kuang Shi detonate if they go into retreat, go unconscious or with a successful WIP check. You can also set them off with a long skill from the controller.

If you're thinking about paying pts for them, you should be aware of their effect on order pools. Too many in one Combat Group and you lose orders cancelling their Impetuous orders to keep them alive. I never take more than 2 in a Combat Group unless it's a second suicide group that I don't expect to survive.

The Celestial KSCD is a good profile even if you ignore the Control Device. It's a really cheap source of long range smoke. Anything that has a MSV2 or likes rushing up works well with it. Want to get a Tiger into a hot zone? Smoke the LZ, drop the Tiger into the smoke.

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:
Want to get a Tiger into a hot zone? Smoke the LZ, drop the Tiger into the smoke.

I didn't think you could combat jump into smoke. Unless the model has a special rule that says it can?

Yeah you're right. Can't nominate a spot in zero-v zones. You can still use it to block LoF to where you want to jump to or walk into it with AD2.

Works for me. Just making sure I understood the rules correctly. I wouldn't have wanted to get surprised by something i didn't think was possible.

 Daba wrote:
How do Kuang-Shi actually work?

What else could I use the Celestial Guard controller model as if I don't take Kuang-Shi?

Kuang Shi are basically Yu Jing's version of Netrods/Imetron. They are cheap, disposable orders that allow us to drag a lot of pricey gear along while still having a good order pool. The difference between them and the cheapy orders for Aleph/CA is that they can move, come with a chain rifle, and can either become an FO point or explode when they go down. They are great for anti-camo and anti-link work because they are cheap enough to be very disposable, but the chain rifle is a versatile CQB weapon that makes the best use of their cheap, suicidal nature. I tend to not expect them to last much longer than a turn or two, but usually that is enough for them to be of use.

As for the Celestial Guard with the control device? That device is 100% free for him. He costs no more because of it. His base cost is the same as a normal CG and the 0.5SWC is actually due to his smoke LGL. Few forces can grab a non-impetuous smoke tosser for the cost, and it is one of those things that see placement in almost every list because of that. In general, I find it more useful than the Shaolin Monk for support roles, especially alongside the Hsien. So don't feel you need to grab some Kuang Shi along with them. The model is a fantastic profile on its own.

Ordered the CG 2 pack (control device/smoke and normal rifle I think) and the support pack.

Might start getting some of the 'crazy' stuff like Priss Asagiri and the O-Yoroi later.