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I have a bit of an issue. My two kids are getting interested in 40k. I am trying to steer them toward codex books that are of the same relative power level. I USED to game a tremendous amount but am out of touch now and need some help. Would Crimson Slaughter vs Eldar be a decent match up?

Its like asking "can an american run faster then a jamican"

The best of the best will be the jamicans, but when you take a random person of each you cant really tell.

What i'm getting to-REALLY depends on the list.

Both can bring out cheese lists (though eldar are better at it), and both can be made into unplayble lists, the eldar are better -in general-, but both have their highs and lows.

Part of the power of being the one in charge though, is that you can control and and prevent spamming overpowered units (like heldrakes or wave serpents), so it wont get TOO harsh.

But honestly i dont thing you should steer them to these two armies, you should show them the styles of what's out there (without teaching of power level) and let them each choose their own, it will wonk out much better (I mean, CS and eldar is kina random, what if their favorite factions will turn out to be orks and Deldar? or farsight and IG? or demons and space wolves?)

I think your kids should pick the army they like best without worrying too much about power levels. It is all about the models in the end.
I do not know much about the Crimson Slaughter, but I believe the current Chaos codex is often considered somewhat underpowered, but I believe this not that much an issue. CSM can still make quite a few viable lists.
The Eldar codex is powerful, but not OP unless you take lots of Wave Serpents and Titans.

Actually Eldar is a great list for new people, because practically every unit in it is viable. With something like C:SM, you can pull stinkers pretty easily.

Eldar are full of shenanigans, and so are probably sub par as a starting army. I'm glad I did Marines first.

That being said, they should play whatever faction most appeals to them. A large part of the hobby to many people is getting into their army.

I'd argue that marines have more shenanigans to make them functional: the ability to prune out 66% of the codex. C:Eldar is easier to use, imo.

Martel732 wrote:
Actually Eldar is a great list for new people, because practically every unit in it is viable. With something like C:SM, you can pull stinkers pretty easily.

These aren't loyalist marines, you know that right?

Honestly, I would let them get whichever army they like best and go from there. After all, how can they really get into the hobby if they don't enjoy the army that they're playing? I think the relative power level of each Codex really only is important depending on the attitude of the players. As long as they care more about having fun rather than winning at all costs, therefore buying the models they like rather than what's "best", everything should be fine!

For example, I have a Tau army, but I'm not the kind of guy who plays solely to win. I don't spam Riptides (though I do have one, just one one), nor am I interested in having a Buffmander or Markerlight Commander squad. I know that Pathfinders are an excellent source of Markerlights, but I'd rather fill my Fast Attack slot with Piranhas and a flyer and then have a Stealth Markerlight team instead.

What I'm trying to recommend is to let your kids pick whichever army they want to play, then promote a nice casual, fun mindset using the models they think are coolest rather than let them follow the win at all costs powerbuild mentality.

If its CSM vs Eldar, and neither really know their shenanigans, CSM will probably remove bucketfulls of Eldar, as they're t3 4+/5+ with 12"/18" versus t4 3+ with 24". Unless Eldar use more complex stuff (serpents or jet bikes), but that basically means no infantry skirmishes.

Almost anything in the Eldar Dex can be used well, but must be used right to do much at all. Almost everything is a specialist. SMs, and Tac marines specifically, can be a lot more versatile. When starting, that versatility is king.

Um, it would seem that other than UGLY models, Eldar would be great for beginners with all their re-roll this, and re-roll that, and add +1 to this and auto wound with that, plus a re-roll, modify that with -1 and add another re-roll. That's without Psychic powers.

CSM are fine as long as you avoid CSM. Cultists and cult troops are both reasonably good.

Eldar will be fine as long as nothing is taken in multiples.

However if one takes CSM units for most of the army and the other takes waveserpents and dire avengers then the eldar player will stomp the CSM player with little thought or effort.

Eldar are an excellent beginner army and nearly every option in the codex is good, great, or at the least useful.

Crimson Slaughter can be very good and can compete with eldar but there are a large number of units which seem cool but are terrible when played. I would not normally recommend them as a starter army as they have a lot of units which look cool, sound cool, but when you play it it is disappointing and you will end up putting it on a shelf.

CSM also have quite a few stinkers as well. There are no other codices as well rounded as Tau and Eldar.

If you make your kids play chaos I'll have to report you for abuse.

I'm a chaos player since 2nd ed I started black legion but went iron warrior, the last codex hurt me deeply and showed me how little GW cares for armies that arnt loyalist.

Crimson slaughter was made to sell possesed kits, it's not a codex it's a cash grab.

Chaos isn't equal to eldar, it's not even equal to vanilla marines unless you want to be a dick and spam helldrakes.

hobojebus wrote:
If you make your kids play chaos I'll have to report you for abuse.

I'm a chaos player since 2nd ed I started black legion but went iron warrior, the last codex hurt me deeply and showed me how little GW cares for armies that arnt loyalist.

Crimson slaughter was made to sell possesed kits, it's not a codex it's a cash grab.

Chaos isn't equal to eldar, it's not even equal to vanilla marines unless you want to be a dick and spam helldrakes.

That's not being a dick. Drop pod SW will table that CSM list over half the time. We won't get into Vendetta/Stormraven air cav. It's actually quite the gamble and shows how poor the CSM codex is.

hobojebus wrote:

Crimson slaughter was made to sell possesed kits, it's not a codex it's a cash grab.

Well excuse me, I actually LIKE crimson slaughter, the possessed troops is a nice theme, the ability to have a possessed lord is also quite fun.
Also supplements are mostly fluff and artwork, the rules are not the main focus.
Its another take on CSM army, one that is honestly quite nice. if they wanted a cash-grab they would have made a proper 1k sons supplement where they actually work-that one would have sold in preorders alone more then CS and BL sold till now combined.
Or you think black legion was made to sell chosen?

 BoomWolf wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

Crimson slaughter was made to sell possesed kits, it's not a codex it's a cash grab.

Well excuse me, I actually LIKE crimson slaughter, the possessed troops is a nice theme, the ability to have a possessed lord is also quite fun.
Also supplements are mostly fluff and artwork, the rules are not the main focus.
Its another take on CSM army, one that is honestly quite nice. if they wanted a cash-grab they would have made a proper 1k sons supplement where they actually work-that one would have sold in preorders alone more then CS and BL sold till now combined.
Or you think black legion was made to sell chosen?

If you are playing Crimson Slaughter, and I do before you say anything, you play them so that you can run possessed as troops. If you run possessed as troops you are setting yourself up for failure every time, you will lose because paying that many points for a space marine is just asking to fail. You are paying double for a Space Marine that has no ranged weapons, no extra defenses, and is still just going to walk across the table to get into assault who one third of the time has AP3 and the rest of the time has nothing that helps in assault. Every single time I have run them in a Land Raider they get destroyed before they even make it into assault and that is such a massive point sink to begin with...

I would not advise a starting player deal with that level of frustration, Crimson Slaugher is a lot of fun but it is almost always playing a losing battle.

Your kid wants to run Eldar, let him run eldar. He's not going to be running the uber net lists, so it probably won't be too bad.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
If you are playing Crimson Slaughter, and I do before you say anything, you play them so that you can run possessed as troops. If you run possessed as troops you are setting yourself up for failure every time, you will lose because paying that many points for a space marine is just asking to fail. You are paying double for a Space Marine that has no ranged weapons, no extra defenses, and is still just going to walk across the table to get into assault who one third of the time has AP3 and the rest of the time has nothing that helps in assault. Every single time I have run them in a Land Raider they get destroyed before they even make it into assault and that is such a massive point sink to begin with...

I would not advise a starting player deal with that level of frustration, Crimson Slaugher is a lot of fun but it is almost always playing a losing battle.

I also run crimson slaughter and I don't even own a possessed. I do however love fear causing cultists, divination sorcerers, and 2+ IWND nurgle biker lords. Just because something is an option doesn't mean it is the only option or somehow necessary. I fact most people I have seen lists for do not run possessed in a crimson slaughter list.

If your kid wants to play Eldar, get him some Eldar.

If you want him to play Eldar because you read of how OP they are right now, you're doing it wrong, and one child will hate the hobby (whoever regularly loses).

As I said, the beauty of the Eldar is that the "grab bag" approach to army building works decently with them.

I appreciate the on-topic input. All I was trying to do was determine if the two codexes in question were a gross mismatch power-wise. Thanks to those who helped.