Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi there!

I was wondering if anyone here is familiar with the ancient rules for the Brass Scorpion of Khorne, which appeared in the old Apocalypse book, and could give me some assistance. You see, the thing is, I built one of these Brass Scorpions quite some time ago. Now normally I would just run it like a regular Defiler, which is fine. However with the addition of Escalation I wanted to try something different for a change and perhaps field it like it was meant to be fielded. Problem is, those rules are a bit outdated. I'm aware Forgeworld has since given us the Greater Brass Scorpion, but is much bigger (and therefore much stronger) and it wouldn't feel right fielding mine as one of those.

So what I wish to propose instead is to update the old rules to 6th edition, but I could use some expert advice on balancing the point cost to current standards.

I want to keep everything the same for the most part. The Frenzied Charge special rule, however, which normally gives us a long definite charge distance, I propose to change to a 3D6 charge distance, which seems more than fair. Now I also don't see why this thing shouldn't have the Daemon and It Will Not Die special rules, since the Defiler has them as well. But that's about it.

Now, how much points do you guys feel I should add or subtract (or neither) from the default cost, considering the changes I've made above and how (Super-heavy) units are priced as of now?

Any help would be appreciated.

The Greater Brass Scorpion and the old Brass Scorpion are literally identical excepting +1 SP (+3 hull points), +1 front armour, and +3 Attacks on the Greater Brass Scorpion at +150pts. I don't actually see anything wrong with just deciding you're going to up and run an old Brass Scorpion.

Not in the latest FW Apocalypse book, from what I've seen. I don't have the rules at hand at the moment, but I did some comparing earlier and it's actually 300 points more expensive, has a more powerful main cannon and some extra special rules, including the ones I've already mentioned. Perhaps you're referring to some older rules?

However, if you think +3 HPs, +1 Front Armour and +3 A is worth 150 points, I could just subtract that from the Greater Brass Scorpion stat line and have a 'Lesser' Brass Scorpion. That could work, but he would be 150 points more expensive compared to the old one and that seems rather pricey for something so fragile. Although I could be underestimating him.

Thoughts?

Pulled up IAApoc2013. The statline changes are still the same, the extra 150pts come from adding d3+2 stomp attacks and swapping the Demolisher Cannon for a "Soulburner Cannon" that's the same thing excepting AP2, Primary Weapon, and Ignores Cover.

I might run with a slight modification of the rules in addition to dropping some stat changes. Estimate:

Brass Scorpion of Khorne (450pts)
WS 3, BS 3, S 10, AV 13-13-10, I 3, A 3, HP 6.
Unit: 1 Brass Scorpion.
Type: Super-Heavy Walker.
Equipment: Scorpion Cannon (36", S6, AP3, Heavy 10), Demolisher Cannon (24", S10, AP1, Heavy 1, Large Blast), two Claw Cannons (Template, S6, AP3, Assault 1)
Rules: Doomsday Reactor (+2 to rolls on the Catastrophic Damage table). Runes of the Blood God (Psykers targeting the Brass Scorpion take an automatic Perils of the Warp attack regardless of their psychic test result). Frenzied Charge (charge distance is 3d6"). Multi-Legged Terror (make d3 Stomp attacks instead of 1).

Mind this is an estimate, testing/mathing required for balance.

Thanks for the help so far!

Pulled up IAApoc2013. The statline changes are still the same, the extra 150pts come from adding d3+2 stomp attacks and swapping the Demolisher Cannon for a "Soulburner Cannon" that's the same thing excepting AP2, Primary Weapon, and Ignores Cover.

Actually you're forgetting the extra special rules, because previously it didn't have the Daemon and IWND USRs. Plus the Demolisher cannon is AP 2, Ordnance 1, by the way, not AP 1, Heavy 1, so the only difference between the two weapons is Ignores Cover (since Primary Weapon gives you Ordnance).

Of course if removing those stats would make him 150 points cheaper, and removing Ignores Cover from its main cannon would, according to you, take away an additional 100 points, then I should be getting the Daemon and IWND special rules for free at 450 points.

Does that seem reasonable, though? I'm not sure if upgrading a Demolisher Cannon to have Ignores Cover is really worth 100 points. It's a pretty strong upgrade, sure, but 100 points strong? Perhaps more like 75. That would put him at 475 points.

Is the great Brass Scorpion legal in 40k now?

IA13 is due soon ish, its going to be a Chaos book with all the FW Chaos unit in it, might want to wait and see if its in there.