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Hey Dakkites, I am interested fielding a Drop Pod Ally with my Orks to 1) possibly eliminate an annoying target on the far side of the table turn 1, and 2) take the pressure off my Battlewagons as they come across. My options are:

Dark Angels
Gray Knights
Space Marines
Space Wolves

I am leaning away from a Dreadnaught that can get one shot. Perhaps some Marines and a Psyker that can throw some Blessings and Maledictions around? Not being familiar with the specifics of any of these Codices, do you have any suggestions on unit composition and psychic abilities? I know Prescience and JOTWW really annoy me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is the new Inquisition Supplement in the same ally slot as Gray Knights?

well grey Knights don't have drop pods but they can have deep striking termies which perform a similar role. Space wolves are a really good drop pod army but so are normal space marines i would shy away from blood angels and dark angels though anything they can do the other to marine codexs can do better.

9 greyhunters with 1x meltagun and a runepriest with Jaws. can be handy.

I second space wolves. You can take a combi melta on the rune priest for extra AT punch(and help break the Av14 orks usually have trouble with). You also get the best psychic defense in the game in a 2' bubble. Unless you have a weirdboy in said range, you get all of the benefits and none of the problems.

You could also access a chooser of the slain. It makes your rune priest marginally better(much better if you take living lightning in addition to jaws) but also shuts down scouts and infiltrators.

Well if you are looking for a minimal point cost suicide unit, Black Templar can do that for you with the crusader squad

In a 5-man unit you can have a combi-melta, meltagun and multi-melta. And you could also upgrade one guy to carry either a powerfist or power weapon as well. If you have the points you can add the extra marines to fill up the pod. But for the HQ you would want to take either a hardcore unit to absorb hits and destroy in close combat (chapter master w/ shield) or you could go really cheap and just go Chaplain w/ auspex. The auspex will reduce any cover save by 1, will give this small squad fearless, and if they survive will give them a nice boost in the first round of combat.

Chaplain w/ auspex
5 initiates, meltagun, multi-melta, sword brother with combi-melta in drop pod
245 pts.

only 301 pts to make it a 9-man squad with the chaplain, and then you can add the power weapon or power fist to one of the normal initiates for a bit of extra flavor and close combat punch.

So that is 2 votes for Space Wolves. What about 8 Marines, Rune Priest, and an Inquisitor from the Inquisition supplement? I could throw 2 Melta shots, Maledictions, and Blessings all over the place.

I had been toying with Chaos Marines with their access to Maledictions, but I likethe idea of having a first turn opportunity to strike a recalcitrant opponent.

 Icculus wrote:
Black Templar

They cannot Ally with Orks.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:
So that is 2 votes for Space Wolves. What about 8 Marines, Rune Priest, and an Inquisitor from the Inquisition supplement? I could throw 2 Melta shots, Maledictions, and Blessings all over the place.

I had been toying with Chaos Marines with their access to Maledictions, but I likethe idea of having a first turn opportunity to strike a recalcitrant opponent.

 Icculus wrote:
Black Templar

They cannot Ally with Orks.

Black Templars no longer have their own codex (as they did when the matrix was created) and are now from Codex : Space Marines (Chapter Tactics Black Templars). Either this causes issues with the allies matrix (by considering chapter tactics instead of codex as the defining factor) or the Black Templars specific entry no longer applies. Up to you and your opponents, of course. Personally, hiwpi, they are C:SM, so can ally with Orks.

Just grab a captain give him a melta gun, buy a command squad give them all melta guns put them all in a drop pod and buy a 5 man scout squad for late game objective contesting.
Around 300 points of guaranteed dead tank killers.

hyozanman wrote:
5 man scout squad for late game objective contesting.

Desperate Allies are not denial units.


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Also, the Inquisition Codex cannot ally with Orks, so no to an Inquisitor. Someone pointed out that although the Inquisitor would be Battle Brothers with the Marines, he could not embark in the Transport with them.

I still don't like the idea of the Black Templars as presented, a CC unit, because they still have to weather a round of shooting before krumping stuff.

Vanilla Marines. Salamanders.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Vanilla Marines. Salamanders.

This.

C:SM (Salamanders, Iron Hands or Ultramarines <- any will work well for a small drop deployment)

Librarian (telekenisis chart, hope for gate of infinity (unfortunately cannot use the divination powers for precience), or pick another chart that you like)
5 to 9 Marines (meltagun, combi-melta) + drop pod

180 points (at 5 marines)

Can LotD ally with orks?

If you need a TAC choice, GK is pricey but the most effective.
GKSS + 1 psycannon + 1 nemesis hammer + inquisitor as HQ is around 150.

The only problem is that each guy that is removed makes you cry.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

hyozanman wrote:
5 man scout squad for late game objective contesting.

Desperate Allies are not denial units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the Inquisition Codex cannot ally with Orks, so no to an Inquisitor. Someone pointed out that although the Inquisitor would be Battle Brothers with the Marines, he could not embark in the Transport with them.

I still don't like the idea of the Black Templars as presented, a CC unit, because they still have to weather a round of shooting before krumping stuff.

Did you read what I suggested? I suggested Black Templar because they can get 3 special *shooting* weapons in a 5-man squad. For shooting.

 Seb wrote:
If you need a TAC choice, GK is pricey but the most effective.
GKSS + 1 psycannon + 1 nemesis hammer + inquisitor as HQ is around 150.

Will this unit draw fire away from my advancing BWs? What can it kill that my Lootas won't?

I apologize, Icculus, for asking for advice and then just skimming your response. I will definitely look at this unit.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 Seb wrote:
If you need a TAC choice, GK is pricey but the most effective.
GKSS + 1 psycannon + 1 nemesis hammer + inquisitor as HQ is around 150.

Will this unit draw fire away from my advancing BWs? What can it kill that my Lootas won't?

I apologize, Icculus, for asking for advice and then just skimming your response. I will definitely look at this unit.

That's the point : they threaten almost everything. If they can't kill something shooting, the hammer + iron arm can take care of anything in CC. Having the inquisitor means servo skulls so you'll DS them where you want, while they can prevent DS in the 12' around them. They even ID multi wounds.
Considering they average 25 pt / pair of boots, you can be sure your opponnent will divert some fire from your BW to them, and you'll cry each time you loose one considering you could have taken 4 ork wounds for the same price.

 Seb wrote:
If you need a TAC choice, GK is pricey but the most effective.
GKSS + 1 psycannon + 1 nemesis hammer + inquisitor as HQ is around 150.

The only problem is that each guy that is removed makes you cry.

And unless you give the Inquisitor Terminator armor, how is he to DS with the the Strike Squad? Up the price for that.

Rorschach9 wrote:

 Seb wrote:
If you need a TAC choice, GK is pricey but the most effective.
GKSS + 1 psycannon + 1 nemesis hammer + inquisitor as HQ is around 150.

The only problem is that each guy that is removed makes you cry.

And unless you give the Inquisitor Terminator armor, how is he to DS with the the Strike Squad? Up the price for that.

That's still cheap. You can also give him a psycannon and / or psychic powers. But if you go down that road, you may end up with your allies costing a lot more than you would want.
(GKSS at 10 guys can take a second psycannon, and not taking psybolts on 10 guys would be stupid).

Templars are out. The Codex explicitly tells you to substitute "Codex: Black Templars" in older publications with "Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics", and as "C:SMUtBTCT" is more specific than "C:SM" them's the rules.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars are out. The Codex explicitly tells you to substitute "Codex: Black Templars" in older publications with "Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics", and as "C:SMUtBTCT" is more specific than "C:SM" them's the rules.

Uh .. what?

Codex : Space Marines (Chapter Tactics Black Templars) = Codex : Space Marines. Codex Space Marines can ally with orks. The Chapter Tactics you choose is not the codex and has no bearing on the allies matrix.

Rorschach9 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars are out. The Codex explicitly tells you to substitute "Codex: Black Templars" in older publications with "Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics", and as "C:SMUtBTCT" is more specific than "C:SM" them's the rules.

Uh .. what?

Codex : Space Marines (Chapter Tactics Black Templars) = Codex : Space Marines. Codex Space Marines can ally with orks. The Chapter Tactics you choose is not the codex and has no bearing on the allies matrix.

Pg. 78 of the Space Marine Codex tells you to replace "Codex: Black Templars" in older publications with "Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics". As such, if you're playing with the Black Templars Chapter tactics you have two matrices that could potentially apply to you, causing the more specific to take precedence.

Normally the Chapter Tactics doesn't matter, but when the Codex itself tells you that it does, it really does.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars are out. The Codex explicitly tells you to substitute "Codex: Black Templars" in older publications with "Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics", and as "C:SMUtBTCT" is more specific than "C:SM" them's the rules.

Uh .. what?

Codex : Space Marines (Chapter Tactics Black Templars) = Codex : Space Marines. Codex Space Marines can ally with orks. The Chapter Tactics you choose is not the codex and has no bearing on the allies matrix.

Pg. 78 of the Space Marine Codex tells you to replace "Codex: Black Templars" in older publications with "Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics". As such, if you're playing with the Black Templars Chapter tactics you have two matrices that could potentially apply to you, causing the more specific to take precedence.

Normally the Chapter Tactics doesn't matter, but when the Codex itself tells you that it does, it really does.

I don't follow your logic friend.
The new codex tells us to replace all mentions of Codex: Black Templar with Codex: Space Marines. That doesnt mean replace the symbol on the matrix with the C:SM symbol. It means replace their allowed allegiance with those of the C:SM.

 Icculus wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars are out. The Codex explicitly tells you to substitute "Codex: Black Templars" in older publications with "Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics", and as "C:SMUtBTCT" is more specific than "C:SM" them's the rules.

Uh .. what?

Codex : Space Marines (Chapter Tactics Black Templars) = Codex : Space Marines. Codex Space Marines can ally with orks. The Chapter Tactics you choose is not the codex and has no bearing on the allies matrix.

Pg. 78 of the Space Marine Codex tells you to replace "Codex: Black Templars" in older publications with "Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics". As such, if you're playing with the Black Templars Chapter tactics you have two matrices that could potentially apply to you, causing the more specific to take precedence.

Normally the Chapter Tactics doesn't matter, but when the Codex itself tells you that it does, it really does.

I don't follow your logic friend.
The new codex tells us to replace all mentions of Codex: Black Templar with Codex: Space Marines. That doesnt mean replace the symbol on the matrix with the C:SM symbol. It means replace their allowed allegiance with those of the C:SM.

What you seem to be thinking is that it tells you to look at Space Marines instead of Black Templars, but that's incorrect. The designer's note is directly changing the way we're supposed to read older publications, effectively working as an Errata replacing all mentions of "Codex: Black Templars" with "detachments from Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics special rule".

Is the allies matrix referencing Codex: Black Templars and is it an older publication than Codex: Space Marines? I'd assume you're OK with me answering "yes" to both of these questions.

Codex: Space Marines tells us to treat all references to "Codex: Black Templars" as though they said "detachments from Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics special rule". As such, there are now two entries for Codex: Space Marines in the allies matrix; one that's simply "Codex: Space Marines", and one that was formerly "Codex: Black Templars" but which should now be read as "detachments from Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics special rule". Both of these apply to an army using Black Templars Chapter Tactics, and as they're in conflict the more specific one trumps the other, meaning that Black Templars armies use the tab that formerly referred to "Codex: Black Templars" but which now refers to "detachments from Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics special rule".

That's plain silly, and I don't know anyone who would read in to that much. And if you want to get true RAW, nowhere on the ally matrix does it say "Codex: Black Templar" The listing next to the symbol just says "Black Templar."

So by your RAW logic it wouldn't apply

"Find the row for the codex of your primary detachment on the left side of the matrix. [...]"

It's in the lower right corner of pg. 113.

What purpose would the Designer's Note fill if we're not supposed to apply it because it's "reading too much into it"?

The designer's note is to enforce that the C:SM should now be used for all purposes in relation to Black Templar and that the old codex is no longer active.

There has been no other codex merger, so without that note, the old BT codex would still be valid.

And yes I saw the chart that says find your codex, but the designed note as you stated says replace all mentions of "Codex: Black Templar" so to be RAW I have to look for that exact phrasing. This is the kind of logic you are putting forward right now with the two column theory.

 Icculus wrote:
The designer's note is to enforce that the C:SM should now be used for all purposes in relation to Black Templar and that the old codex is no longer active.

But that's not what it says at all. It tells you to replace Codex: BT with "detachments from Codex: Space Marines using the Black Templars Chapter Tactics special rule", not with "Codex: Space Marines". You can't just stop reading halfway through the sentence.