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Has anyone else been so delighted (or not) with this game than I have been? In all non-existing objectivity, I think this is the perfect two-player card game!

Totally different playing style between 3 runner factions and 4 corporations, lots of possibilities and meaningful choices, lots of different strategies to win, deck-building bonanza but no unbeatable power combos, easy to scale down or up, play is very interactive, I love the theme, the game makes me think about new ways to handle situations again and again, 1 set is enough for 2 players (i.e. two players can share the costs)...

It's also BGG game No. 5 (of currently 6987; MtG being on 118) - and even if BGG lists must be taken with a heap of salt (fanbois galore), I think it is well deserved.

It's such a cool game, so why the gell is there not a single DakkaDakka thread on this!? You are missing out on an awesome game!

There have been a few threads on it. I don't think any of them have ever grown much though.

I don't play the game much but the times I have (both old and new versions) I have been nothing less than pleased. According to one of the netrunner websites I used to hang out on Richard Garfield always felt that it was a much superior game to Magic and wished it would have been the one to get popular instead*. He also didn't think it fit too well as a collectable card game.

Looks like both of these complaints have been rectified.

*Brief history lesson. Back in the 90s Richard Garfield created magic the gathering as one of the first collectable card games for WoTC. He also created the original Netrunner. Netrunner was axed due to lack of sales a few years later. After much trouble and haggling WoTC sold the rights to the mechanics to FFG who ported it into their Android setting (basically updating cyberpunk to take into account all the new stuff in computing since the 90s).

The reason why there aren't any active threads (threads with posts from the last month) is because Dakka is primarily a miniatures forum. Look at our Magic the gathering thread, sure it's several pages long, but it has really only six contributors. There are several people in Dakka that I know play (myself included) but its just not a main game to some people.

As a side note: I'm enjoying learning the game. I'm currently running a Jinteki deck and trying my hand at Gabriel and Noise decks, but my biggest problem is that everyone more experienced than me already knows what my decks can do. Royal pain in the arse to try and flatline the runner when they spend a turn regaining cards.in their hand. Im half tempted to change up my deck and add in Matrix Analyzers and the Jinteki card that let's you shift advancement tokens for use with Project Junebug and agendas.

It's a really fun game, but as Alfndrate implies there is an experience plateau there. You're either on top with the veterans, or struggling at the bottom.

I sold off my starter box to a friend not too long ago(one of the first to rush up and grab mine at its Gencon debut lol). I enjoyed it, but it just didn't really "wow" me, and the add-on packs just made me think it's a cheaper MTG. Since I'm already heavily invested in MTG, there was no need to keep both going. I satisfy my itch with deck builders when I want to get a new card game.

I bought the game about a week and a half ago, played very long learning games with friends (like 2 hours) by Wednesday of last week I had most of my questions answered, went to a LGS to play and get my remaining questions answered.

I played 5 games in three and a half hours, lost all of them, all because everyone knew what my decks could do. So it's frustrating as a new player when a strategy is new to you, but old hat to everyone else. Not only is it old, but it's easily defendable.

I was even told that a deck I played against was basically broken and that'd I have no chance against it. That's not Netrunners fault but it certainly didn't endear me to that experienced player.

It's a fun game, but I need.to play with people around my experience level so we can learn the game and not grind through loss after loss...

To me ANR is the best of the best when it comes to any card game I've played before.

I love the asymmetrical interaction between the players and the lack of instants to constantly interrupt the opponent's turn. MTG used to be my poison of choice but I got so sick of games solely based on how to force your opponent to watch him play a game while you sit quietly and do nothing till you lose in about 2 turns.

Land in MTG has always bothered me as a resource (well that and I spent a long time watching my games become one sided due to land destruction being really prevalent where I played) and the fact that I can always generate resource no matter what on my turn is a godsend to a card player like me.

So yeah ANR is hands down my absolute favorite CCG, LCG, ECG, ect..

I have recently started to learn this game and have quickly come to love it. I have made a personal pledge to learn the Runners first and then move on to the Corps, rather than try an ' all at once approach '.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
To me ANR is the best of the best when it comes to any card game I've played before.

I love the asymmetrical interaction between the players and the lack of instants to constantly interrupt the opponent's turn. MTG used to be my poison of choice but I got so sick of games solely based on how to force your opponent to watch him play a game while you sit quietly and do nothing till you lose in about 2 turns.

Land in MTG has always bothered me as a resource (well that and I spent a long time watching my games become one sided due to land destruction being really prevalent where I played) and the fact that I can always generate resource no matter what on my turn is a godsend to a card player like me.

So yeah ANR is hands down my absolute favorite CCG, LCG, ECG, ect..

What sick, twisted individual would play land destruction in a casual game?!

Actually, aren't there cards in netrunner that can take the currency you earn, effectively acting as resource destruction? By the same token, the Corp can destroy the Runner's resources(upgrades and whatever else) neutering the Runner's ability to continue to affect the game state.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
To me ANR is the best of the best when it comes to any card game I've played before.

I love the asymmetrical interaction between the players and the lack of instants to constantly interrupt the opponent's turn. MTG used to be my poison of choice but I got so sick of games solely based on how to force your opponent to watch him play a game while you sit quietly and do nothing till you lose in about 2 turns.

Land in MTG has always bothered me as a resource (well that and I spent a long time watching my games become one sided due to land destruction being really prevalent where I played) and the fact that I can always generate resource no matter what on my turn is a godsend to a card player like me.

So yeah ANR is hands down my absolute favorite CCG, LCG, ECG, ect..

What sick, twisted individual would play land destruction in a casual game?!

Actually, aren't there cards in netrunner that can take the currency you earn, effectively acting as resource destruction? By the same token, the Corp can destroy the Runner's resources(upgrades and whatever else) neutering the Runner's ability to continue to affect the game state.

To an extent there is, but currently there is no way to completely shut out your opponents ability to do something during their turn, unlike Magic where the sequence goes

"I play a land."
"I play a mountain then destroy your land. Your game is now over as I fulfill my deck's victory condition and never allow you to even play a card."

Not to mention there are checks balances and even drawbacks to most of the more powerful cards in ANR. The action system used allows a player to react and rebuild and coupled with the way the designers slipped in 0 cost events and drip feed econ you can usually bounce back unless you just had a really bad draw, but thats true of any card based game, really.

I've pulled more come from behind victories in ANR in it's short lifespan than I ever did playing MTG.

Except that against a Gabriel Santiago/Desperado deck it's hard to keep the runner low on credits, and if they're running that identity. There's a good chance you'll see an account siphon or three. Kind of hard to defend yourself and advance agendas when your opponent is just stealing it anyways.

Also you can only trash resources. So you can't trash hardware or programs, which if you're playing against anyone other than NBN Weyland you don't immediately care about tags, and I've never seen anyone play resource heavy so that they have to watch how many tags they have.

To counter your anecdotal evidence about come from behind wins, I've accomplished 0. ANR is a good game, I enjoy playing it, but playing against a more experienced player is less fun than it might be in other games... because they know what you'll do because they've seen it all before.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Except that against a Gabriel Santiago/Desperado deck it's hard to keep the runner low on credits, and if they're running that identity. There's a good chance you'll see an account siphon or three. Kind of hard to defend yourself and advance agendas when your opponent is just stealing it anyways.

Also you can only trash resources. So you can't trash hardware or programs, which if you're playing against anyone other than NBN Weyland you don't immediately care about tags, and I've never seen anyone play resource heavy so that they have to watch how many tags they have.

To counter your anecdotal evidence about come from behind wins, I've accomplished 0. ANR is a good game, I enjoy playing it, but playing against a more experienced player is less fun than it might be in other games... because they know what you'll do because they've seen it all before.

Playing against more experienced players results in more losses in pretty much any game. I think it really only hurts ANR so bad is because you have to learn two distinct games in one so the learning curve is much higher than most other games.

But I'm sorry, as much as people complain about Gabe or Andy or Account Siphon in general, I just don't agree. Howler, Ash, Strong HQ defense, or my personal favorite if it's early game AS is to put down a Trace Ice and Feed the trace with credits so they either get nothing or take two tags on a greatly diminished return. Plus the runner has two tags and if he leaves them I can always work with that.

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Except that against a Gabriel Santiago/Desperado deck it's hard to keep the runner low on credits, and if they're running that identity. There's a good chance you'll see an account siphon or three. Kind of hard to defend yourself and advance agendas when your opponent is just stealing it anyways.

Also you can only trash resources. So you can't trash hardware or programs, which if you're playing against anyone other than NBN Weyland you don't immediately care about tags, and I've never seen anyone play resource heavy so that they have to watch how many tags they have.

To counter your anecdotal evidence about come from behind wins, I've accomplished 0. ANR is a good game, I enjoy playing it, but playing against a more experienced player is less fun than it might be in other games... because they know what you'll do because they've seen it all before.

Playing against more experienced players results in more losses in pretty much any game. I think it really only hurts ANR so bad is because you have to learn two distinct games in one so the learning curve is much higher than most other games.

But I'm sorry, as much as people complain about Gabe or Andy or Account Siphon in general, I just don't agree. Howler, Ash, Strong HQ defense, or my personal favorite if it's early game AS is to put down a Trace Ice and Feed the trace with credits so they either get nothing or take two tags on a greatly diminished return. Plus the runner has two tags and if he leaves them I can always work with that.

Actually the learning two games was pretty easy. I played a few games as a runner to see how the other side handled it, but I can do pretty much either decently well against people of my own experience level. The game (and people that play it) suggest learning just Corp off the bat because it's less to learn and you get to focus on the main part of the game (scoring agendas) quickly. Unfortunately the starter decks from the core set all have pretty simple strategies that more experienced players know. With most games, new players can have a chance as long as they grasp the basic strategy (this extends to board games, minis games, card games, etc...) Unfortunately ANR has the problem that the strategies are very simple to counter for the most part, especially when playing against core set only. And as a new player that's frustrating because at this point you probably dumped about 60 dollars into the game (core set and enough sleeves to sleeve your cards), and to get a better chance of winning you have to buy data packs or additional core sets (to top off the cards they only give you 1-2 of). If you're getting your face stomped every game because the guy across the table knows more strategies for your deck than you do, then it's not going to make for a very good play experience.

As someone that's only faced the core set runners (but faced decks containing data pack cards), Gabriel has been the most demoralizing deck to face. Everyone talks about having a good economy in the game, and it doesn't help when the runner not only has a better self-sustaining economy, but has the ability to sap your economy, it makes for a negative play experience, especially when he has enough bankroll to attack any server he wishes, and can break any subroutine without thinking about it. My biggest issue is that there's no event/operation that allows me to trash programs. If I want to trash programs I have to bring in out of faction cards like Ichi 1.0 or 2.0...

I do guess if you only play out of the core set then it might seem imbalanced the starter decks are definitely not the most optimal decks to get competitive with. They do a great job teaching faction play styles and game mechanics but they don't support competition really well. So I agree with that.

Thing is once you do start playing it doesn't cost you 1000s of dollars to catch up with the competition and you're always on potential equal ground with card availability. Also the meta of ANR tends to swing wild allowing forgotten deck styles to come back around making for some crazy tournaments. All I see at a MTG tourney nowadays is meta vs counter meta net deck style

Thanks for all the input so far!

I agree that the starter set is not particularly competitive but that does not mean it's unbalanced in itself.

@Alfndrate:

I quickly started using other factions' cards, however - as that is a core mechanic to balance out your deck against others. It seems you did not go into deck-building at all then?

You also mentioned markers - one of the most effective ways to kill a runner through loss of cards, yet in the first 5-6 matches none of us gave them much attention.

I think the learning curve of A:N is a very long one.

Not a steep one, because I found it relatively easy to learn the mechanics.
But there are so many combos and counter-combos and different strategies and counter-strategies that it takes you a long time to try them all (which for me is already a big part of the fun of the game).

I didn't want to buy data packs if I didn't like the game, that way I would only be out the cost of the core set and the sleeves.

So I was using the core set jinteki and neutral cards, and after I had a "demo" game with a guy I went and bought Cyber Exodus and another spin cycle data pack. And I added the fetal AI agenda, took out some neutral cards, and added some pop-up windows. My deck performs better now, but it still doesn't change the overall strategy of the deck, which is to flatline the runner. Again, a strategy that can be easily overcome by just spending a turn regaining cards in your hand.

I did not try deck building early on because I wanted to learn the mechanics of the game before I moved into advanced gameplay.

I've built two runner decks since last Wednesday (remember I've only been playing a week and a half), but I've yet to play them. They probably suffer from the same thing my Corp deck suffers from, everyone knows the strategy before I do...

I sympathize with you. It always sucks a bit to lose against better players. Everyone prefers to play against equals, in order to have a fair chance.
But that also dpends on the attitude of your opponent. If that person was helpful and openly discussing game moves and what to do against them, then that would be totally fine with me. If he/she kept an arrogant "oh, you are such a noob" stance, I would simply look for someone else to play with.

One of the advantages of A:N (and other asymmetric LCG) is that if you buy something, it's always for 2 players (since all cards are exclusive to one or the other side). So it's relatively easy to find new players (provided there are interested people at all), since they can basically join for free.

I'm a big fan of all FFG LCGs. I enjoy the poker style bluff aspect of Netrunner, and it's been popular with our group as we're all cyberpunk fans. It's probably the most tactical 1v1 experience FFG has created. I'd like an optional multiplayer format but it might destroy the delicate balance, and I always have Game of Thrones for multiplayer fun.

Watching ANR didn't really wow me, but I loved Cthulhu and WH:I. Game of Thrones was fun, but I could take or leave it, and I expect I'll go nuts over Conquest when it hits. I'm also teetering on the edge of the SW LCG, as I've played it and really enjoy it, but don't have anyone to currently play it with...

 Alfndrate wrote:
I didn't want to buy data packs if I didn't like the game, that way I would only be out the cost of the core set and the sleeves.

So I was using the core set jinteki and neutral cards, and after I had a "demo" game with a guy I went and bought Cyber Exodus and another spin cycle data pack. And I added the fetal AI agenda, took out some neutral cards, and added some pop-up windows. My deck performs better now, but it still doesn't change the overall strategy of the deck, which is to flatline the runner. Again, a strategy that can be easily overcome by just spending a turn regaining cards in your hand.

I did not try deck building early on because I wanted to learn the mechanics of the game before I moved into advanced gameplay.

I've built two runner decks since last Wednesday (remember I've only been playing a week and a half), but I've yet to play them. They probably suffer from the same thing my Corp deck suffers from, everyone knows the strategy before I do...

So your complaint is that you're using what's widely considered the weakest faction in the core set and don't want to spend influence to splash econ cards from Weyland and HB.

Jinteki is not just flatlining the runner once you get past core. Data packs and the Honor and Profit expansion add Psi cards(Both players bid 0,1, or 2 credits, if the amounts are different a nasty effect happens to the runner.) and options for fast advancement.

Pick up Honor and Profit. You'll get to add Plan B (Neutral ambush that allows you to score an Agenda in your HQ when it's accessed) Komainu(ICE with as many net damage subroutines as cards in the runner's hand) and a Director upgrade that reduces the runner's hand size by 2.

No one told me that Jinteki was the weakest faction in the core set, I greatly enjoyed how that deck played, unfortunately it's a deck that one can really only play against newer players because it's such an easy deck to defend against. I don't play any of the other Corp factions because I haven't found a playstyle I like.

I try to play my Criminal deck when I can, but my buddy, the only person I'm playing against now, really only has a Shaper deck so I'm stuck playing Corp most of the time...

I'm enjoying the game, and I'm sticking with it, my initial complaint was that I didn't want to spend money on a game I felt was imbalanced at a basic level (i.e. core set).

 Alfndrate wrote:
No one told me that Jinteki was the weakest faction in the core set, I greatly enjoyed how that deck played, unfortunately it's a deck that one can really only play against newer players because it's such an easy deck to defend against. I don't play any of the other Corp factions because I haven't found a playstyle I like.

I try to play my Criminal deck when I can, but my buddy, the only person I'm playing against now, really only has a Shaper deck so I'm stuck playing Corp most of the time...

I'm enjoying the game, and I'm sticking with it, my initial complaint was that I didn't want to spend money on a game I felt was imbalanced at a basic level (i.e. core set).

Doesn't the actual orginized play rules require you too bring two decks with you? Your buddy really needs to put together another deck...

Play what you like before playing whats good is my general motto these days... I'd much rather have fun playing with people I like then actually winning, but I may be lucky in that most of the people in my play group feel similarly.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
No one told me that Jinteki was the weakest faction in the core set, I greatly enjoyed how that deck played, unfortunately it's a deck that one can really only play against newer players because it's such an easy deck to defend against. I don't play any of the other Corp factions because I haven't found a playstyle I like.

I try to play my Criminal deck when I can, but my buddy, the only person I'm playing against now, really only has a Shaper deck so I'm stuck playing Corp most of the time...

I'm enjoying the game, and I'm sticking with it, my initial complaint was that I didn't want to spend money on a game I felt was imbalanced at a basic level (i.e. core set).

Doesn't the actual orginized play rules require you too bring two decks with you? Your buddy really needs to put together another deck...

Play what you like before playing whats good is my general motto these days... I'd much rather have fun playing with people I like then actually winning, but I may be lucky in that most of the people in my play group feel similarly.

It does. He told me today (cause we play during our lunch break at work) that he was working on a very basic Weyland deck (i.e. GRNDL refinery and most of the core stuff). So we'll get to goof around with that. If we were doing organized play at the store it wouldn't be an issue .

The past few weeks I've been playing the stock HB deck from Creation and Control because that and the Shaper deck from that box are the only "stock" decks I have to show people how to play. It's been interesting building up walls of ICE that costs bouko bucks to get through, but still not quite my style.

I'm sitting down tonight and looking around at some of the cards I have/some netlists to get a feel for how other people are playing this game.

 Alfndrate wrote:
No one told me that Jinteki was the weakest faction in the core set, I greatly enjoyed how that deck played, unfortunately it's a deck that one can really only play against newer players because it's such an easy deck to defend against. I don't play any of the other Corp factions because I haven't found a playstyle I like.

I try to play my Criminal deck when I can, but my buddy, the only person I'm playing against now, really only has a Shaper deck so I'm stuck playing Corp most of the time...

I'm enjoying the game, and I'm sticking with it, my initial complaint was that I didn't want to spend money on a game I felt was imbalanced at a basic level (i.e. core set).

Honor and Profit really opened up new options for Jinteki. Medical Breakthrough and Mushin no Shin both lend themselves really well to rush decks. Medical Breakthrough is a 4/2 agenda that drops in advancement cost for every Medical Breakthrough scored(Even if the Runner stole it.) The third one can be scored from hand without even needing a Biotic Labor. Mushin no Shin is a double that installs a card from hand with 3 advancement tokens (With the limitation that you can't score that card this turn.) You can basically force your opponent to run against a Plan B or Project Junebug.

Yeah, I've been looking at building off of Honor and Profit. Atm I've dismantled my Corp decks and I'm gonna try an HB deck while I work on acquiring a few more data packs.

Also, is it just me or does everyone and their mother seem to find room for Jackson Howard... card seems to be a little broken.

I'd say he's not so much broken as just really useful. It is quite annoying to build up to a run against a very nasty server only to find that it's got Jackson Howard behind it.

I'm currently running a Noise deck that's built around all of the viruses ever. I quite want to get another couple of Aesop's Pawnshops to allow me to enhance it, but I'm having a lot of fun with it

What are people's opinions on Honor and Profit? I really liked it, and built a Jinteki deck with it, though I'm not sure whether I like the criminal cards or not. I'm considering splashing Mushin No Shin (the three advance card) into my HB deck because it seems like it would work quite nicely with fast advance.

I'm goofing around with a deck that consists of *mostly* Honor and Profit cards centered around Tenma. It worked out pretty well, though I need a different virus other than Nerve Agent. I might switch it out for Hemorrhage or Medium.

I do like a lot of the cards in Honor and Profit. I'm trying to get my hands on 2 more SanSan City Grids for aa Medtech Fast Advance deck, but stupid card is only available in the core set. >_<