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Good day.

I have two questions on this Mortis and Contemptor Mortis rule.

I don't have IA-2-2, so the latest source of the rule I have access to is Apoc 2013 book. Is the wording of the rule is the same in IA-2-2 as in Apoc 2013? If it changed then I'm discussing outdated rule, and this is something I'd rather avoid.

The actual question (assuming that wording in Apoc 2013 is still up to date):

Rule says that, basically, the unit gains skyfire and interceptor USRs if it did not move on that game turn.
I was under impression that in order to gain those USRs, movement phase should come first and then if you don't move your dread, it gains the rules.

However, some people pointed out the following to me:
The rule mentions game turn and doesn't state usual "until the owner's next (player) turn".

So, let's imagine the situation:
I go second. During movement phase of game turn 1 I leave my dread with HTA special rule stationary. Said rule states that my dread gains Interceptor/Skyfire for the game turn it didn't move in the movement phase on. So I have game turn 1 covered.
Then comes game turn 2 and it looks like I don't benefit from HTA anymore, which is a shame because my opponent, going first, begins deploying reserves...

So, you probably get the point. What is actually going on? For simplicity's sake, let's discuss RAW, although HYWPI is welcome too, just make sure you indicate in your post what exactly you are taking about, please.

Right now I see several options on how it should work. Chances are, I simply don't understand what game turn is and that is the reason I have issues with HTA, but anyways:

1) Dread should remain stationary in its movement phase, then it gets interceptor/skyfire until the beginning of owner's next turn (which would be "player turn" as far as I understand, but I decided not to leave this option out);
2) Dread can either move in its movement phase or use interceptor/skyfire in either its shooting phase or during opponent's turn if we are talking about interceptor. Just not both, meaning that if I go second, I can declare interceptor shots during opponent's turn and then must not move in the following movement phase of mine, regardelss of what happened during my last movement phase as it was on previous game turn.
3) Dread must remain stationary in its movement phase, only then it gains USR's for this game turn (as in: until the beginning of 1st player's next turn). Meaning that if I go second, I can only use HTA during my shooting phase right after movement phase in which dread remained stationary. This means that rule is partially dysfunctional as I can never use Interceptor rule gained from HTA to actually intercept reserves.

So, what do you think?

 Barrogh wrote:
Good day.

I have two questions on this Mortis and Contemptor Mortis rule.

I don't have IA-2-2, so the latest source of the rule I have access to is Apoc 2013 book. Is the wording of the rule is the same in IA-2-2 as in Apoc 2013? If it changed then I'm discussing outdated rule, and this is something I'd rather avoid.

The actual question (assuming that wording in Apoc 2013 is still up to date):

Rule says that, basically, the unit gains skyfire and interceptor USRs if it did not move on that game turn.
I was under impression that in order to gain those USRs, movement phase should come first and then if you don't move your dread, it gains the rules.

However, some people pointed out the following to me:
The rule mentions game turn and doesn't state usual "until the owner's next (player) turn".

So, let's imagine the situation:
I go second. During movement phase of game turn 1 I leave my dread with HTA special rule stationary. Said rule states that my dread gains Interceptor/Skyfire for the game turn it didn't move in the movement phase on. So I have game turn 1 covered.
Then comes game turn 2 and it looks like I don't benefit from HTA anymore, which is a shame because my opponent, going first, begins deploying reserves...

So, you probably get the point. What is actually going on? For simplicity's sake, let's discuss RAW, although HYWPI is welcome too, just make sure you indicate in your post what exactly you are taking about, please.

Right now I see several options on how it should work. Chances are, I simply don't understand what game turn is and that is the reason I have issues with HTA, but anyways:

1) Dread should remain stationary in its movement phase, then it gets interceptor/skyfire until the beginning of owner's next turn (which would be "player turn" as far as I understand, but I decided not to leave this option out);
2) Dread can either move in its movement phase or use interceptor/skyfire in either its shooting phase or during opponent's turn if we are talking about interceptor. Just not both, meaning that if I go second, I can declare interceptor shots during opponent's turn and then must not move in the following movement phase of mine, regardelss of what happened during my last movement phase as it was on previous game turn.
3) Dread must remain stationary in its movement phase, only then it gains USR's for this game turn (as in: until the beginning of 1st player's next turn). Meaning that if I go second, I can only use HTA during my shooting phase right after movement phase in which dread remained stationary. This means that rule is partially dysfunctional as I can never use Interceptor rule gained from HTA.

So, what do you think?

You benefit from HTA. Of course that is the intention.

Are you sure it doesn't say until the start of your next movement phase? That seems more reasonable.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
You benefit from HTA. Of course that is the intention.

I suppose so. However, I've seen GW/FW releasing completely dysfunctional rules (well, at least not the case with this one...) more than once, so I don't just assume anything anymore. Ofc we can always mend stuff by setting up agreements with other players (tournament setting don't really bother me), but I'm curious what's up from RAW standpoint.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Are you sure it doesn't say until the start of your next movement phase? That seems more reasonable.

Yup, that would be in line with other rules like that, but I'm fairly sure it's not the case. I will be able to quote exact wording from Apoc 2013 when I get back home, if that is allowed here; although as I've said, I don't know if the rule is worded the same way in the most recent release (which I believe is IA-2-2).

"It gains the Skyfire and Interceptor special rules for that game turn"
Should be "for a game turn" to work properly I guess, but the intent is probably not to only let you Intercept if you go first

Does it say 'doesn't move in the movement phase' or does it say 'doesn't move in it's/your movement phase?'
There are two each game turn, after all....

Also Note:
Sky-fire mixed with interceptor is also done to remove the 'Snap Shot at Ground Target' Restriction found in Sky-fire and may have been done simply to allow the unit to chose to fire at both without penalty.

JinxDragon wrote:
Does it say 'doesn't move in the movement phase' or does it say 'doesn't move in it's/your movement phase?'
There are two each game turn, after all...

It says "If [unit] remains stationary in the Movement phase, it gains [the USRs] for that game turn".
I find it unlikely that it means opponent's movement phase. It is also referred as "the" Movement phase, so probably it doesn't mean both of them by RAW...

JinxDragon wrote:
Also Note:
Sky-fire mixed with interceptor is also done to remove the 'Snap Shot at Ground Target' Restriction found in Sky-fire and may have been done simply to allow the unit to chose to fire at both without penalty.

Reasonable idea. Then again, it doesn't seem to do just that. If we assume "just owner's movement phase", then P1 will be able to use Interceptor rule fully, but not P2. If we assume "latest movement phase", then it renders HTA's activation conditions moot as it will be in play almost always, for both P1 and P2, with no actual restriction on movement in owner's Movement phase, for example...

I must admit, at this point this thread looks like excercise in absurdity more than anything (especially on my part, heh). So I'll just ask: how would you play it and why?

 Barrogh wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Does it say 'doesn't move in the movement phase' or does it say 'doesn't move in it's/your movement phase?'
There are two each game turn, after all...

It says "If [unit] remains stationary in the Movement phase, it gains [the USRs] for that game turn".
I find it unlikely that it means opponent's movement phase. It is also referred as "the" Movement phase, so probably it doesn't mean both of them by RAW...

Maybe, maybe not. Of course, you cannot move in your opponents Movement phase, and (assuming your opponent went first), would not be able to Intercept anything as you would not have the rule until after the Interceptor rule would kick in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, HIWPI if you do not move in your Movement phase you have the Interceptor/Skyfire special rules until the start of your next turn.

The intent was obviously that if you chose to remain stationary and "brace up" you would gain skyfire and interceptor until your next turn.

However the wording is a bit off for that.


What i get when reading it is: If the dreadnought did not move in the preceding movement phase (his or opponents) he has skyfire and interceptor for the rest of that player turn.


This is obviously silly, since he shouldnt be moving during your opponents movement phase by any means and so would always have skyfire and Interceptor during your opponents turn.