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I am currently working on a piece of fiction or fluff aimed at further defining my Craftworld (Altansar) and telling some (Dark) tales about what happened to us during out time in the warp and how we've behaved since we have escaped. Unfortunately, I've taken large swathes of time out of the fandom since starting in only 2005 and my pool of knowledge on Eldar is somewhat limited. I've spent quite a bit of time browsing articles on Warhammer40kWiki and Lexicanum but I feel like there is more to learn and probably a lot of older fluff that I'd like to know. If anybody can help me, I have a few questions about Altansar and a few more questions about the Eldar in general. I realize that many of these questions may not have an answer, as such I'd like to hear an opinion. No established answer means I get to write it, but I'm not the only one playing Altansar. If you do reply, you don't have to answer every question, just the one (or more) that interest you. And thank you ahead of time to all that participate.

When was Altansar created? As in, when was the Craftworld first mentioned or added into the fluff? This'll give me a time period to keep in mind, so I'm not struggling to find scraps so far back, they don't exist. Also, besides the 4th and 6th Edition Codecies, has Altansar been mentioned anywhere else? If so, any new information you can share?

Does any fluff exist on what it was like to live in the Eldar Empire, as an Eldar? The Third Eldar Path novel said that they had no Kings, but they still had Princes, many of whom owned entire planets and shaped them to their will with world-spanning castles. (Just imagine trying to keep that place dust free). And one of the Eldar Path Novels shows a re-enactment of the moment of the fall, but I'm looking for more-so for the lead-up to the Fall.

Were there different factions to the Eldar before the fall? If so, what types and how pronounced? Some of us became distrusted the rest so much, we became Exodites. Some of us tried to save Eldar culture by twisting it to our own (better) ways and take it aboard the Craftworlds. If the Dark Eldar Path novels have anything to say, it's that the Dark Eldar claim to have the most and strongest connections to the Empire from before the Fall and despite acting like a Slaaneshi Cult apparently are't above calling in the Space Clowns to put down an actual Pleasure Cult within their city.

What is the older fluff on how the Eldar interact with the Warp, once inside the warp? Was it even possible for us to enter the Warp in older fluff? I mean Warp Spiders do it all the time, but only for seconds at a time. Once again the Eldar Path series had an interesting take on this, in the third book, but I'm sure that the relationship was far more violent in older fluff.

I think I read somewhere that newer fluff has it that Humans were not edited by the Old Ones, but older fluff points very strongly that Humans were modified by the Old Ones. Eldar were, however. Are there any genetic similarities between Eldar and Humans? Besides the obvious physical similarities. I've even read, somewhere, that old fluff has a few Human/Eldar Hybrids.

I think that's it for now, I'm sure I'll add more questions later, as they come to me. Thanks again for anybody that helps.

There were alot of eldar-human hybrids way back when. Now they've mostly been taken out but Commoraugh probably has plenty of mixed bloods in its diverse populous. As far as eldar interacting with the warp, before the fall that's just where the eldar drew their powers from. And after death an eldar soul would go into the warp and reincarnate. Now that she who thirsts is seeking them the eldar draw psychic power through wraithbone runes. I think Altansar appeared in 4th edition during the global campaign for abbadons crusade. But I'm not 100% on that. To the best of my knowledge there's not alot of fluff on Altansar beyond what the codexes say, I assume gw does this to keep altansar mysterious and sinister. Albeit they must be allied to the IoM because the craft world is so close to terra but nothings really set in stone.

Altansar fluff is sketchy really. Part of the appeal to them, but also in that they are a minor Craftworld, and thus don't attract much attention. 6th edition codex has a little bit of fluff, but that's it.

Sorry if that isn't much help.

Trazyn stole the Wraithbone Choir from Altansar....

 Sasori wrote:
Trazyn stole the Wraithbone Choir from Altansar....

Trazyn's nabbed something from everyone in his competition with the Blood Ravens to see who can acquire the bigger pile of ill gotten loot.

 Sasori wrote:
Trazyn stole the Wraithbone Choir from Altansar....

Yeah, Matt Ward gave me an interesting hurtle to get over there. My answer to that question is that The Wraithbone Choir of Altansar was a Choir of Bonesingers. Altansar lost all of our Bonesingers (the few that survived the warp), but because I still want to field just about anything I want to, we've made up for the loss by (much to the horror of our Craftworld and Exodite Kin and to the sadistic delight of our Soul-Thief Cousins), savaging dead Craftworlds for the replacement gear and training new Bone Singers by Soul Stone Guidance alone. We're not nearly as good as we were, and considering that the Wraithbone Choir was 'Fabled,' we must have been most famous for our Bonesingers, I will be writing Altansar as a Craftworld of Artists prior to our time in the Warp, and as having lost almost everything we fought so hard to preserve from the old Empire, by militarizing as much as possible to survive the Warp.

Actually, quite accidentally I've turned Altansar into an Eldar copy of the Blood Ravens in that, because of losses and the like, we will scavenge what we need to survive. Something I imagine most Eldar would view as an act akin to grave robbing, something that only the Dark Kin would do.

Random side note: I got into the game as an enemy of the Imperium, as everybody at the store which got me into WH40k, played enemies of man. After playing almost all of the Dawn of War games, I think the Blood Ravens are the only Space Marines I have any sort of connection to. It was my loyalist army in XBox 360 Space Marine. Thus said, I do love making fun of the thieving space gypsies.

Redseer wrote:
Albeit they must be allied to the IoM because the craft world is so close to terra but nothings really set in stone.

I think I remember reading that because of our reliance on the Webway, most Eldar consider the physical location of their Craftworld as unimportant. Lexicanum lists Altansar's primary enemy as Chaos, I just assumed we got as far away from the Warp as possible and maybe have been positioning ourselves in the way of a future Black Crusade or something.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Altansar fluff is sketchy really. Part of the appeal to them, but also in that they are a minor Craftworld, and thus don't attract much attention. 6th edition codex has a little bit of fluff, but that's it.

Sorry if that isn't much help.

Believe it or not, every little bit helps, even if I've heard it before. It may not have been your point, but I do think that it is important to remember, 'that which is imagined/undefined is always more awesome then that which is defined.' I'll have to use that in some of the weirder stories I want to add in, define just enough to ask "What the...?" but not enough for it to be lame. Altansar fluff is sketchy, but I think it was our shadowy reputation that drew me to that Craftworld when I first picked up my Eldar. That and I love me some Dark Reapers. However, this project has been on my mind for some time, so I'm going ahead and continuing with it.

One thing I've been looking at for some time is our reputation as a Minor Craftworld and trying to see how others play their Altansar armies. I'm going to describe Altansar as a Minor Craftworld in all but size. In my browsing online I've seen several Altansar Armies, a few of them are Apocalpyse-sized forces. I believe you can find at least one called 'Shadows of Altansar.' I've decided to name mine in a simular mannor, 'Storm of Altansar' and will eventually be making my army an Apocalpyse-sized force as well. With at least two Apocalpyse-detachments running around doing things, I'm going to write Altansar as (at least formally) having a major population. After all Iyanden was huge until they were devowered, their size probably being one of the only things to save them in the end. While their's was a direct confrontation, I will be writing Altansar as slowly but steadily taking losses; more so as cutting off hands and fingers to save the rest of the body, with some of our worst losses coming from the Raids of Crone Worlds that went horribly awry.

Next Questions!

What is the History of Eldar who have fallen to Chaos? Not become Dark Eldar, but Chaos-worshiping-Eldar. This is one of those things that I expect to be either non-existant or a ton of them in really old fluff. Like Ork-Genestealers. In the Dark Eldar Path Novel, 'Path of the Incubus' a Biel-Tann Warlock is unknowingly corrupted by Tzeentch because of his ambition. 'In Path of the Renegade', an Archon is inhabited by a Demon, but this at least made some more sense in how it was done. Does anybody know of a greater history of this?

There has been some debate, or at least a few different ideas on just how many Eldar there are. From what I read... somewhere online... there are two main schools of thought: either a few dozen craftworlds the sizes of single cities or a few thousand craftworlds, ranging from small to the sizes of continents and small moons (massive population centers). Does anybody have fluff supporting either of these ideas? What is everybody's opinions on this?

I personally go with the latter interpretation, where there are trillions upon trillions of Eldar.

This is offset by there being quadrillions of guardsmen, Quintillions of Necrons (even if most are sleeping), sextillions of Orks, and holymotherofgodillions of Tyranids.

I side with this simply because the Eldar need a big hefty population to absorb the losses they do when their birthrate is so low, and it seems that GW also tends to have Craftworlds be quite huge.

The bulk of Hive Fleet Kraken assaulted craftworld Iyanden and it simply wouldn't be possible for them to fit on city sized ships, in addition the Iyanden supplement also makes it clear that multiple exterminatus grade munitions were used on it by a Chaos warlord, and yet it remained whole with only relatively modest damage.

Finally; city sized ships like Eldar or Imperial battleships, Necron Tomb Ships, Ork Battlekroozas, and Tyranid Hive Ships tend to be dwarfed by craftworlds by a huge margin.

 Kain wrote:
I personally go with the latter interpretation, where there are trillions upon trillions of Eldar.

This is offset by there being quadrillions of guardsmen, Quintillions of Necrons (even if most are sleeping), sextillions of Orks, and holymotherofgodillions of Tyranids.

I side with this simply because the Eldar need a big hefty population to absorb the losses they do when their birthrate is so low, and it seems that GW also tends to have Craftworlds be quite huge.

The bulk of Hive Fleet Kraken assaulted craftworld Iyanden and it simply wouldn't be possible for them to fit on city sized ships, in addition the Iyanden supplement also makes it clear that multiple exterminatus grade munitions were used on it by a Chaos warlord, and yet it remained whole with only relatively modest damage.

Finally; city sized ships like Eldar or Imperial battleships, Necron Tomb Ships, Ork Battlekroozas, and Tyranid Hive Ships tend to be dwarfed by craftworlds by a huge margin.

I believe only half of Kraken assaulted Iyanden while the other half assaulted... MaCragge? Nope, Ichar 4. It's been way too long since I was browsing my friend's Tyranid Codex. Said friend, coincidentally plays Kraken, and I've helped paint some of his Gargoyles. Though to refer to any natural group of Tyranid as anything but a 'Bulk' would just be wrong... and weird.

I tend to agree about the sizes of Craftworlds, especially as it seems rather popular for Eldar to defend the Status Quo (Goodbye Ghorala Swarm {
The Octarius Sector? Seriously, it's been a while.}, one of my favorite pieces in the old Tyranid Codex) and for Eldar to take heavy losses such as Avatars left and right. Thankfully those things regenerate in the core of their native Craftworld... unless a bad author has his hands on your army. But that's besides the point.

In addition to the population question, I'd like to tack on one more bit. Does anybody know how often Eldar Twins are born? There have to be a ton of them in recent years, as Wraithknights are now everywhere, it seems.

 Farseer Morlengal wrote:

 Kain wrote:
I personally go with the latter interpretation, where there are trillions upon trillions of Eldar.

This is offset by there being quadrillions of guardsmen, Quintillions of Necrons (even if most are sleeping), sextillions of Orks, and holymotherofgodillions of Tyranids.

I side with this simply because the Eldar need a big hefty population to absorb the losses they do when their birthrate is so low, and it seems that GW also tends to have Craftworlds be quite huge.

The bulk of Hive Fleet Kraken assaulted craftworld Iyanden and it simply wouldn't be possible for them to fit on city sized ships, in addition the Iyanden supplement also makes it clear that multiple exterminatus grade munitions were used on it by a Chaos warlord, and yet it remained whole with only relatively modest damage.

Finally; city sized ships like Eldar or Imperial battleships, Necron Tomb Ships, Ork Battlekroozas, and Tyranid Hive Ships tend to be dwarfed by craftworlds by a huge margin.

I believe only half of Kraken assaulted Iyanden while the other half assaulted... MaCragge? Nope, Ichar 4. It's been way too long since I was browsing my friend's Tyranid Codex. Said friend, coincidentally plays Kraken, and I've helped paint some of his Gargoyles. Though to refer to any natural group of Tyranid as anything but a 'Bulk' would just be wrong... and weird.

I tend to agree about the sizes of Craftworlds, especially as it seems rather popular for Eldar to defend the Status Quo (Goodbye Ghorala Swarm {
The Octarius Sector? Seriously, it's been a while.}, one of my favorite pieces in the old Tyranid Codex) and for Eldar to take heavy losses such as Avatars left and right. Thankfully those things regenerate in the core of their native Craftworld... unless a bad author has his hands on your army. But that's besides the point.

In addition to the population question, I'd like to tack on one more bit. Does anybody know how often Eldar Twins are born? There have to be a ton of them in recent years, as Wraithknights are now everywhere, it seems.

"Only half" of Kraken is still a force so huge that even with the webway, there was no way to move Iyanden out of the way of the Tyranid vise for light years, and enough to throw waves consisting of thousands of city sized hive ships each.

And given the similarities in human and eldar reproduction; I'd say they're born at roughly similar rates to us. Perhaps with less cases of fetal twin consumption (left handedness I think is born from someone eating their twin while they were in the very early stages of conception, so 1/8 of humanity had a twin, but cannibalized them).

For the first time, I'd like to ask, how? Isn't the Webway pretty much a labyrinth of Worm-Holes? Wouldn't Shadow in the Warp shut down the Imperium's ability to Transition to Warp-Space, but because the Webway is 'in neither and both at the same time' wouldn't it be unaffected? I don't think I've ever actually thought that one through. Just how did Kraken cut off Iyanden's escape?

Whatever, I'm sure we can just use the excuse that a few Vanguard Kraken (The names of Tyranid Bio-Ships if I remember) of Kraken (which compared to 'a few Imperial ships' is probably closer in size to an entire IoM Sector Fleet in the Tyranid's own right) were cutting off retreat and making hit and runs on the Craftworld, making escape impossible or something like that.

Edit: In the Eldar Path Novels, Aliatoc was caught by a crusading fleet because they had their pants down, sitting around a sun, letting their craftworld dine on sun rays. I do realize that Craftworlds can only move at incredibly slow sub-light speeds. But you'd think the Eldar would be smart enough not to leave the proximity of the larger Webway Gates. I've been assuming that's how Altansar got to Segmuntum Solar, and where we've been hanging out, anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So this thread has been quiet for just a little bit, but I still have a few questions, mostly with a focus on old Fluff. I'm asking that anybody with an opinion chime in on what they think about any and/or all of the questions that I've asked. Please, the more input the better. As far as I can see right now, these are still the big questions that I'm still looking at.

Does any fluff exist on what it was like to live in the Eldar Empire, as an Eldar? Were there different factions to the Eldar before the fall? Before we split into Exodites, Craftworld and Dark Eldar, how were we organized?

Are there any genetic similarities between Eldar and Humans? How prone to mutation are Eldar? Is it possible for a few from Ulthwe` to have purple eyes, like the Cadians?

Have there been any Eldar who have fallen to Chaos? Besides the obvious answer. (I'm looking at you Arhra). How does Chaos affect Eldar? I understand our more rigidly discipline minds makes it very hard for the lures of Chaos to have a hold on us, but a friend of mine (a Dark Eldar player) once argued that Chaos has nothing to offer the Eldar. We already have our own god of War and Slaughter to emulate. The god of perfection is based on US. We already have some of the best Seers around and why would the durability of Nurgle appeal us, when some of us have an artificial heaven and certain hold-outs (Biel-Tan) believe that we will someday regain our reincarnation?

Instead of asking for fluff, should I just post the ideas and let people debate them (and prove me wrong with fluff); rather than looking for the fluff/ history first, then writing the history as influenced by the answers? Which would you guys enjoy more?

from what I understand, genetics are where the main differences between man and Eldar is found, I think they even have extra organs.
in old fluff there actually were eldar chaos champions living on worlds inside the eye, if I recall they were the mightiest champions of the dark gods or something to that extent. From what I understand Chaos eldar have all been retconned and changed to dark Eldar I.e. Arhra is Drazhar. In one of my books (might be Farseer) the main character does give some exposition that with their soulstones an Eldar cannot be possessed or he would die. So in that light I don't think CE exist anymore. But GW could always bring them back. I think though the main reason chaos worship isn't a problem for the eldar is that they A. Have their own gods to worship. B. They universally despise the chaos gods and understand that they are hazardous.
as far as being wrong with fluff the game is what you make it, so you're never really 100%wrong thus the forge your own narrative gws so fond of

Altansar stole some Imperial relics, but the 55th Kappic Eagles arrived and smashed wave upon wave of Guardians to retrieve them. The relics, the Barbed Gauntlets of Avitus, were probably pretty important to them in some way to send so many Guardians after them.

Redseer wrote: from what I understand, genetics are where the main differences between man and Eldar is found, I think they even have extra organs.
in old fluff there actually were eldar chaos champions living on worlds inside the eye, if I recall they were the mightiest champions of the dark gods or something to that extent. From what I understand Chaos eldar have all been retconned and changed to dark Eldar I.e. Arhra is Drazhar. In one of my books (might be Farseer) the main character does give some exposition that with their soulstones an Eldar cannot be possessed or he would die. So in that light I don't think CE exist anymore. But GW could always bring them back. I think though the main reason chaos worship isn't a problem for the eldar is that they A. Have their own gods to worship. B. They universally despise the chaos gods and understand that they are hazardous.
as far as being wrong with fluff the game is what you make it, so you're never really 100%wrong thus the forge your own narrative gws so fond of

That's hilarious and awesome. We've gone from favored champions to favored snacks, especially in view of Slaanesh.

Well, I picked Altansar instead of just making up my own Craftworld because I wanted both a paint scheme (which I modified a little to further distinguish from Siam-Hann) and a History that I could attach onto and build off of. The downside, is I'm not the only one who plays this Craftworld and when I get around to finalizing all of my notes into an actual History, I'd like to have something that I can show others, that they would agree with and hopefully like. Now I know you can't please all of the people all of the time, but I can try. And writing a good history has me first trying to gather as much information as possible and keep in line with the fluff while making my own Narrative.

When it comes to a specific narrative, though, I'm going to focus on 'The Storm of Altansar.' The Storm is made up of the Amathar Brothers (Farseer Morlengal and Autarch Tumaeth'nil), their student Farseer(s), Autarch(s) and Warlocks, the House Amathar lead Guardian Armies and their allied Aspect Temples as well as Allied Ghost Houses (Not yet added into the Storm) In the future, I want to team up with some of my friends and start an sector campaign keeping track of our armies and fluffing out the battles that we fight. But, before I go into any of that, I want to write a general history of my Craftworld to give further motivation and definition to the force that I will be playing.

Okay: back to the Fluff!

The fist two Dark Eldar Path Novels (I've yet to get around to picking up and reading Path of the Archon, I know it's out now) seem to show, at least where the Dark Eldar are concerned, that they don't actually know all that much about Chaos. Bellathonis (a Haemonculus) once reported on the cycles of Demonic Possession, claiming that the 'slave races' know more about this then they (DE) know. In the second novel, a warlock named Caraeis is apparently corrupted by his ambition and ends up willingly turning into a Lord of Change. Granted I wasn't as big of a fan of these novels, as some Dark Elder buildings are described as made of Wraithbone and other small things that made little sense to me. (I think Wraithbone has to be psychically summoned into existence, and the DE despise Psychic Powers with only those on the lowest rungs of society being brave/stupid enough to toy around with them. That last part also comes from the DE novels.) There is some precedent for having Elder that have fallen to Chaos, though I think I'll continue with the theme of 'quickly culled by their kin,' similar to modern Ork-Genestealers fluff.

Thank you, by the way, your input has helped a lot. I now feel a lot more confident about one of the earliest pieces of fluff I want to write, about a Farseer who saw no way out and asked Tzeentch for help, before being killed by his brother or sister to prevent danger to the Craftworld. For now, I'm going to jot it down in my notes and flesh it out further, later.

Animus wrote:Altansar stole some Imperial relics, but the 55th Kappic Eagles arrived and smashed wave upon wave of Guardians to retrieve them. The relics, the Barbed Gauntlets of Avitus, were probably pretty important to them in some way to send so many Guardians after them.

Huh. That's interesting, didn't Avitus canonically fall to Chaos? (Everybody I knew saw that one coming.) Sorry, couldn't resist the bad joke there. This is actually a piece of fluff that I haven't heard of before. What book is it in?

Mostly out of me being a cheap and starting my Eldar Army at the end of 5th Edition, I actually don't have any Wraithguard, Wraithblades and I only have one Wraithlord. Wraithguard were more expensive (GW dropped prices on something, I almost had a stroke out of disbelief) when I was really picking up models for my army, the plastic kits weren't out yet. I'll pick up more, eventually, but first I'm focusing on modding and painting my army I already have before expanding more. As of consequence, I've been playing a weird mix of Biel-Tan and Ulthwe`, having a ton of Guardians fits right into the fluff that I want to write. Similar to Ulthwe` because of proximity to the warp we have unusually strong Seers. Those that have chosen not to follow the Path of the Seer are required to spend some time in the Guardian Armies. Many of these Guardians (as protecting the Craftworld was the highest priority in the Warp) go on to serve the Aspect Temples. In the story/ background I'll be writing, almost all of the Civilian Paths, especially those that have to do with Self/ Artistic Expression have disappeared as out fear of Drawing the Eyes of (S)He who Thirsts, or as the Tragedy Councils have claimed the few remaining Teachers of those Civilian Paths. I'm going to include an abundance of Ghost Warriors, but I feel like it's something that Altansar wouldn't field in large numbers, In the Warp. If an Eldar Dies, there's a chance we can retrieve their Soul Stone and high-tail it back to the Craftworld. (Indeed, I'll let units who have broken and run due to high losses, run off the board, claiming a win as they save their fellows' Soul Stones) If a Wraith Construct dies, there's an even greater chance of their Soul Stone being shattered and (S)He who Thirsts gets an extra snack that day. None the less, due to attacks and (mostly) due to the EVER PRESENT WHISPERS OF THE GREAT ENEMY (as seen in the Third Eldar Path Novel), many Eldar have had their will broken and willingly (or forcefully) sought solace in the Infinity Circuit. We have taken many losses and several Houses have died out, but we weren't reduced to 20%, like Iyanden was.

From my Notes: The Altansar Tragedy Council: (An Early Draft Concept, name may change. Please tell me what you think!)
A group of high-level or late-path Warlocks and early-path Farseers charged with watching over the Craftworld during their time in the warp. They usually dress mostly in Black, accented with the Reds of their Craftworld and many of them have a bleak yet resigned outlook on life due to their current profession. They scry the citizenry of the Craftworld, seeking out those who's will are close to the end, who risk falling to Chaos and letting the Great Enemy onto the Craftworld. When an individual is found, who will soon fall, they are contacted before any actual corruption can take place. Those who are contacted are taken away to a Ritualized swift and painless Mercy-Killing, then their Soul Stone removed and their soul joined to the Infinity Circuit. In this way, untainted Souls are allowed to join, strengthen through greater numbers and continue the Infinity Circuit. Most who are contacted go peacefully with the Seers, but a few have had to be forcefully put down before a Daemonic threat occurs. Because of this, Tragedy Seers were always armed. If other Eldar knew what happened, Altansar would likely be seen as persecuting the innocent. A few of the Tragedy Council must agree before a sentence is carried out and it only takes a small group of Tragedy Seers to show up to the target for the message to be made clear. In this way, Altansar has prevented any true corruption at the hands Chaos, though the lesser corruptions of being forced to go to such extreme lengths to survive still ways heavy on the Craftworld. After escaping the Warp, the Tragedy Council has disbanded, but their color has been kept among the Seer Council(s?), as a reminder of those that have been lost and what Altansar has had to give up to survive.

 Farseer Morlengal wrote:
Huh. That's interesting, didn't Avitus canonically fall to Chaos?

Well, they are spiky gauntlets, aren't they?

 Farseer Morlengal wrote:
Sorry, couldn't resist the bad joke there. This is actually a piece of fluff that I haven't heard of before. What book is it in?

Codex: Militarum Tempestus.