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Longtime Dakkanaut





West Chester, PA

There’s an unnerving trend in 6th edition and the new codices as GW continues to move towards re-rolls. The problem, these powers are not only over-powered but they add considerable rolling and time to the turns. In particular, powers like fortune (which makes a 3+ re-rollable armor save better than a 2+ save. Terminators fail 1/6 saves, fortune on shining spears only fail 1/9). The wyvern IG tank, re-rolls the scatter die, and re-rolls to wound rolls.

I propose a simplification and nerf to re-rolls. Essentially, all of the “re-roll” powers, weapons, and abilities instead confer a +1/-1 to all affected dice. No die roll can be modified to be impossible or 100% certain, unless stated. More explicitly:

- Re-roll to hit: instead of re-rolling to hit, all powers or weapons with this ability instead confer a +1 BS to friendly units or -1 BS (to a minimum BS1) if it debuffs enemy units.

- Re-roll to wound: all powers and weapons with this ability instead confer +1 to their to wound rolls (at best 2+). No effect on targeted vehicles.

- Re-roll armor saves: all powers and abilities with this rule instead confer a +1 to friendly armor rolls (1’s always fail) or a -1 to enemy armor rolls (may negate 6+ armor entirely). This only affects the armor save roll, and does not affect armor penetration.

- Re-roll morale checks: no change?

- Re-roll scatter die: instead subtract 2” from scatter. (Re-roll to hit only confers the +1 BS)

These are mostly considerable nerfs to the re-roll mechanic. Instead of a 4+ re-rollable save, you get a 3+ save, which is worse (4++ = 75%, 3+ = 66% save) but this is still a substantial benefit.

- Ignore cover: all weapons that ignore cover instead -2 to all cover rolls.

The ability to ignore cover is vastly overused, Tau marker lights and air-burst make it impossible to play as any army with 4+ save or worse. -2 to cover rolls is still a substantial power, but cover (and particularly stealth/shrouded upgrades) retain their role.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/18 00:52:51


"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun

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Longtime Dakkanaut






hmmm... I like this Idea somewhat, but I'd make it +1 to the 'to wound' roll as opposed to +1 strength - which I think is what you were intending but +1 strength makes strength 4 suddenly affect armour 11 and toughness 8, which a re-roll wouldn't help at all with.

-1BS would also have to be capped at 1, or people couldn't shoot fliers or flying monsters at all, but then it means it has no effect on people snapfiring, which re-rolls do.

re-roll morale checks, again you're making it not effective for people who it would have been most effective to. plus we mustn't forget the bosspole re-roll is only conditional, I don't want to kill a boy straight away for +2 leadership only to roll low enough to have not needed it.
I think, as morale tests aren't as frequent as to hit & to wound etc, they could probably still be kept re-rolling. but I understand when people are rolling massed dice which can re-roll to hit, then re-roll to wound, then you have to re-roll successful saves, it does get kinda tedious.

I think you're on the right lines, don't get me wrong; but I have a habit of picking holes in every good proposal. your job is to go fill 'em

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/18 00:11:51


12,300 points of Orks
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Made in us
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West Chester, PA

Updated with your suggestions.

"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun

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Actually, that's rather interesting. However, note that d6 modifiers are iffy. Cause for examle, reducing orks from bs2 to bs1 is worsening their damage output 2 times and they hit 17% of time down from 33% . While reducing a marine from bs4 to bs3 is while still being a 17% drop, is just a 1.33 times reduction.
Same with twin-linking. BS 2 with twin linked goes to 0.55 from 0.33 which is 1.66 times increase. It's not that much of a difference with bs3 actually, but still a tiny bit better while this 11% increase might be not notisable for marines, it's a huge thing for orkses or ig.

While the modifier thing might be good and actually rather ballanced, what will you do with specific rerolls of ones? Preferred enemy or daemon of Tzeench.

And once again, low-characteristic models will suffer the most

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/18 10:23:27


 
   
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My only way to tech against air with both my armies are rerolls...

Fortuned Phoenix Lords should get *some* benefit. Fortune on Seer council is a problem, but let's not evicerate a WC2 power on a table with 4 bad powers doesn't seem right.

What if the rerolls granted +1 or 2, but allowed d6s to overflow (up or down) like Ballistic Skill?
   
 
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