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I was painting a chimera for my company command squad this week end and was also reading up on the rules for them. Now in the rules it say that two models may fire from the fire point on top. Looking at the rules for fire points in the main rule book it says the these shots may be made at a different target than the vehicles weapons. What confused me though was the lasgun arrays. It says "A chimera has two separate arrays of three lasguns - one array located above each side of its hull. Up to six models in the embarked unit (a maximum of three per array) may fire one lasgun each from these lasgun arrays, provided those models are not using chimeras fire points this turn. To represent the unusual nature of these weapons, use the chimeras ballistic skill regardless of how far the chimera has moved. If the chimera suffered a crew shaken or crew stunned result, the lasgun arrays can only make snap shots. Lastly, each array may shoot at a different target to the chimera's other weaponry, though all lasguns in the same array must shoot at the same target."

Now reading this brings a few questions to mind. First being if you have a squad of say ten veterans in a chimera, would six fire from the lasgun arrays while two more vets can shoot special weapons from the fire point? The second question is that if they can shoot separate targets would you be able to have the chimera shoot at one target, veterans from the roof shoot at another target and still have the remaining guys inside shoot at two more targets? Now maybe I am just reading more into this than what is actually there, but if a chimera could shoot at four separate targets it seems like it would be on track to be the best transport in the game.

Yes , you can.

Or maybe not...

Incorrect, the Veterans must fire all shots at the same target, both from the lasgun array or from the fire points, the Chimera has its own weaponry, this does not include the array, just your Turret/hull weapons and upgrades and can fire at a separate target anyway as in the dedicated transport rules...

The first question is: Absolutely.

The Second we are currently working on in the thread Ghaz linked to.

While I am the one that posited the question; I believe the Arrays are slaved to the vehicle(part of the vehicle's shooting) and just require the passengers to fire, this makes all the rules work as written and gives us the same answer as our knee-jerk reading(5 possible targets coming from the space of the Chimera: 1 Multilaser, 1Heavy Bolter via Techpriest awakening, 1 from each Array, and 1 From the embarked unit)

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
The first question is: Absolutely.

The Second we are currently working on in the thread Ghaz linked to.

While I am the one that posited the question; I believe the Arrays are slaved to the vehicle(part of the vehicle's shooting) and just require the passengers to fire, this makes all the rules work as written and gives us the same answer as our knee-jerk reading(5 possible targets coming from the space of the Chimera: 1 Multilaser, 1Heavy Bolter via Techpriest awakening, 1 from each Array, and 1 From the embarked unit)

Yes, quite.

I didn't believe this was up for contention?

The arrays aren't the transported unit shooting, they are simply manned by that unit.

"Each array may shoot at a different target to the Chimeras other weaponry, though all lasguns in the same array must shoot at the same target" is rather plainly clear. Each array can have separate targets. Especially since it's physically impossible for them to have the same target.

I agree with maceria. I'm not sure how that rule is a point of contention.

The main arguments start here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/270/589768.page#6745586

clively wrote:
I agree with maceria. I'm not sure how that rule is a point of contention.

The main arguments start here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/270/589768.page#6745586

Major Payne showed why I even asked about it in this very thread.

The Arrays state that they are "fired by the embarked guardsmen"(paraphrase) which is where some people think it is part of the unit's shooting.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

clively wrote:
I agree with maceria. I'm not sure how that rule is a point of contention.

The main arguments start here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/270/589768.page#6745586

Major Payne showed why I even asked about it in this very thread.

The Arrays state that they are "fired by the embarked guardsmen"(paraphrase) which is where some people think it is part of the unit's shooting.

It does imply that the array might not be able to fire if no one is embarked, yet can still fire at 2 separate targets if only a single model is embark. Definitely an odd rule.

SJ

No, the number of Lasguns that can be fired is absolutely based on the number of models embarked, and you can only fire 1 lasgun per embarked passenger while simultaneously requiring 1 embarked passenger per lasgun fired.

And yes, as I have said in the main AM Thread, it is a very complex rule; which is why I had opened the discussion there about which unit if firing the guns.

If the it is the Chimera's shooting where the guns get fired the rules all work.

If it is the Embarked unit's shooting where the guns get fired most of the rules do not work.

Kel, imho, the only way that rule reads is as if it's the Chimera shooting.

So the arrays may fire as the Chimera fires, by the embarked models but supposedly without following the normal shooting rules for units (embarked or not), as in the rules for all models in the unit must fire at the same target (With exception to split fire etc)... Sure the guys inside can fire the lasguns (and fire point weapons) at a separate target to the chimera's main weapons (as the rule states), but I would have assumed that if both arrays could not target the same unit due to LoS issues or fire arcs then its just bad luck, you would not just let them shoot at something else because you felt bad that the arrays were poorly positioned relative to the model and its targets...

It is not so much that the guys inside are actually Firing the Lasgun arrays.

The the Chimera moves 12" and the Guys manning the arrays are Veterans The BS to-hit on the arrays is 3; This is not ever the BS Of veterans, especially not when a transport moves greater than 6".

Further you have the specific rule that Each array may fire at a separate target from the Chimera's other weapons; This would be meaningless if it was part of the unit's shooting(and the arrays would have to fire at the same target as the unit since there is no allowance for that).

Basically the only way the Array's rules work at all is if they are fired with the Chimera.

I've got a question about Chimera arrays, although a different one.

Vehicles have a limit on the number of weapons it can fire at normal BS depending on distance moved. So are the arrays considered a weapon of the vehicle? Or is it a fire point? Or is it neither?

If it is a vehicle weapon, does it mean if the Chimera went cruising, it fires at Chimera BS but do snap shots?

Or if it is a fire point, when Chimera moves at cruising, the lasguns fire snap shots?

Or if it is neither, does it mean it can fire even when the vehivle moves flat out? Since it is neither vehicle firing it nor is it models firing out of fire points. (edit) Because the rules for flat out says that the vehicle can forgo shooting to move flat out. But in this case the shooting is by the embarked model.

It is a vehicle firing weapon, but fires at full BS when cruising and while other weapons are fired.

They have specific Special rules: always Full Chimera BS(even says in the rule regardless of distance traveled).