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Alright, I might plan to get into fantasy a bit as I see some people in my area are starting to play it again, and I wanted to have one for both Kings of War and WHFB.

Looking at the tactics, and the price for creating it with non-Games Workshop models to an extent, I am torn between Brettonnia and their Knights, and some good old smashing of the enemy lines with the Ogres. The only caveat is that I want a fun army that is the axe-to-face methodigy to a degree but also some tactical flexibity? Out of that, which one is more of that out of those two?

Ogres are more tactically flexible.

It has been said with Bretonnia that "If you face ten different Bretonnian armies, you will face ten variations on the same list."

Basically, the 'list' of Bretonnia is a huge block of men at arms with a damsel and banner, a few units of knights, re-rollable armour saving lords and heroes, trebuchets and pegasus knights.

Orges you have a bit more variety, plus they are cheap by GW standards as each model is expensive points wise (except Gnoblers)

Sad but true, Bretonnia really doesn't have a lot of variety right now, but we can still be a good army and be competitive in this edition. Ogres do have a bit more flexibility and variety, but not as much as most people think, as most Ogre Players follow the same build in re-guards to taking a Bull Horde, which really is a norm for Ogre players as I have yet to see an Ogre player not take one. That being said, both armies are aggressive armies, as Bretonnia needs to get the charge off to utilize there Knights, and the same can be said with Ogres, as though they don't need to as bad as Bretonnia does, they do a lot better when they do charge, as they generate impact hits. Bretonnia can utilize the lance formation, which means they have ranks of 3x Knights wide, which allows you some tactical flexibility over other Cav units. Reason is that since they are only 3x wide, I can slam 3x Lances of Knights into a single horde of Infantry, and watch them crumble as very few units can sustain a charge from multiple Bretonnia Lances. It depends on what you want to do in the end, but both armies are pretty similar when it comes to tactics, but Ogres do have more tactical flexibility with more Shooting Units and some Monstrous Cavalry. Plus, both Armies are cheap and easy to get compared to others, so at this point it boils down to whenever you want an army of Medieval Knights supported by Men-@-Arms, Bowmen, Peg Knights, and Trebuchets, or an Ogre army of Monstrous Infantry supported by Monstrous Cavalry, Goblins (cant remember what they are called), as well as Cannons.

Yeah, I get what you mean for Brettonnia, they do have some rather nice ideas and that, but looking up from what they have in there current book, I am more kind of leaning towards Ogre Kingdoms until it seems they are getting a new book and look up on that.


Plus, they have some non-Games Workshop models that can be made into those armies with some Mantic and Fire Forge games with a little bit of work (well for the most part. I need to look around for the Monstrous Cavalry Ogre Kingdoms have as well as Trebuchets).

Ogres also have a limited choice of tactics to pick from (in most games you will be forced to charge towards the enemy as fast as possible to get into combat ASAP) but they do have some nice shooting options.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
Yeah, I get what you mean for Brettonnia, they do have some rather nice ideas and that, but looking up from what they have in there current book, I am more kind of leaning towards Ogre Kingdoms until it seems they are getting a new book and look up on that.


Plus, they have some non-Games Workshop models that can be made into those armies with some Mantic and Fire Forge games with a little bit of work (well for the most part. I need to look around for the Monstrous Cavalry Ogre Kingdoms have as well as Trebuchets).

Understandable. Me and many other Bretonnia players where really disappointed that GW decided to give WE the next Fantasy update, and although I I agree they do need the help more then Bretonnia, we have been waiting for an army book for the longest time, so it is a bit frustrating to say the least, but it hasn't changed my opinion. I love my Brets and to be frank, I too have considered an Ogre Kingdom army as its a fin army to play, but I am planning on using Minotaur's from the Beastmen Army as I think that would look really cool on the tabletop.

 Rommel44 wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:
Yeah, I get what you mean for Brettonnia, they do have some rather nice ideas and that, but looking up from what they have in there current book, I am more kind of leaning towards Ogre Kingdoms until it seems they are getting a new book and look up on that.


Plus, they have some non-Games Workshop models that can be made into those armies with some Mantic and Fire Forge games with a little bit of work (well for the most part. I need to look around for the Monstrous Cavalry Ogre Kingdoms have as well as Trebuchets).

Understandable. Me and many other Bretonnia players where really disappointed that GW decided to give WE the next Fantasy update, and although I I agree they do need the help more then Bretonnia, we have been waiting for an army book for the longest time, so it is a bit frustrating to say the least, but it hasn't changed my opinion. I love my Brets and to be frank, I too have considered an Ogre Kingdom army as its a fin army to play, but I am planning on using Minotaur's from the Beastmen Army as I think that would look really cool on the tabletop.

Yeah, both WE and Brettonnia really needed an update, so my guess is after a 40k update (I am going with it being Orks, but that is speculation on my part), I feel that Brettonia might get the update next. Seems like they have been going into overhaul with updating their armies, but that makes me wonder what is going higher up. Then again, that is in another thread.

Do they have the Digital army books for Android? I do prefer the physical copy, but 45 for an army book is just a bit silly, so I am looking for all cheaper alternatives for the time being.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that any of the WHFB books are available on the Android platform. On top of that even the ones of iBooks are still going to run you around $40 so it's up to personal taste whether or not you want the physical copy. Bretonnia isn't even available anyways.

Alright, thanks for the heads up.
Perhaps I will look around the Swap shop or so for some deals and that.

Play both armies and love Bretonnia more. That said, at this time Ogres would be more advisable since they have some more diversity model-wise, and they're stronger on the table top.

Bretonnia has some of my favorite fluff in the game, and my Mousillon themed army is probably my favorite army between both fantasy and 40k. The problem right now is more than half the Bretonnian model range has been pulled from GW. This likely indicates a new army book coming soon (hopefully they will be the next fantasy army), but when you wait around a decade for a new book, you just never know.

If you're just getting back in, Ogres will provide you with a rewarding, yet fairly easy modeling experience, and you won't have any trouble finding models in any avenue. If the Lady of the Lake is calling you, hold off for a few months when Bretonnia will likely have a new book and some sexy new models.

Keep in mind that Bretonnia is strongly rumoured to get a new armybook after Wood Elves, so this year.
Not sure if buying an armybook now (which is OOP anyways for a reason) is a good idea.
That said, I would prefer a Ogre army just for the looks, esp. with Titan Forge Pirate Ogres.

riburn3 wrote:
Play both armies and love Bretonnia more. That said, at this time Ogres would be more advisable since they have some more diversity model-wise, and they're stronger on the table top.

Bretonnia has some of my favorite fluff in the game, and my Mousillon themed army is probably my favorite army between both fantasy and 40k. The problem right now is more than half the Bretonnian model range has been pulled from GW. This likely indicates a new army book coming soon (hopefully they will be the next fantasy army), but when you wait around a decade for a new book, you just never know.

If you're just getting back in, Ogres will provide you with a rewarding, yet fairly easy modeling experience, and you won't have any trouble finding models in any avenue. If the Lady of the Lake is calling you, hold off for a few months when Bretonnia will likely have a new book and some sexy new models.

Its not as bad as it sounds. GW has gotten rid of the Pewter Models, such as the Yeoman, Grail Knights, Questing Knights, and the Trebuchet along with some Lord and Heroes, but they have kept everything also so I expect new models for all of those choices. Bretonnia Core Knight models are some of the nicest models in the game, as well as the Men-@-Arms and they won't get changed as they are very unique and look great on the table top. As of right now, I primarily run a Core-Heavy list, with 5x Lances of Knights ( 4 lances of 12x KOTR and 1 lance of 15x KE ), as well as a horde of Men-@-Arms, Peasant Bowmen, Pegasus Knights, and 2x Trebuchets. Ran this in a tournament, which I placed 1st fyi , and you can view my Army List here, and will be sure to share the results in the Battle Reports section as soon as I get some free time.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/590369.page

Besides that, Bretonnia overall really doesn't need a lot of changes to be competitive. All they really need is a lot of point changes across the board, with the addition of a few new units, rules, and an upgrade for others, and from looking at how the Empire book went with there Cavalry, the one thing I think they need to do is make EVERY Knight in the Bretonnia Army book with the exception of Knights Errant S4 and I4, as Bretonnia is supposed to have the best human Cavalry in the Old World, and Men-@-Arms either need to become WS3 base or Drop in Points as no WS2 model should be worth 5 points in my opinion. If they do that, then I would be happy .

I would have to keep that in mind, but I plan to build most of my army out of Mantic Ogres and that.

If I did the Brettonnians, I would mostly go to Fire Forges selection of Men-at-arms, Teutonic and Templar Knights as it fits Brettonnia fairly well. But, I shall wait to see if that is true for their book.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Keep in mind that Bretonnia is strongly rumoured to get a new armybook after Wood Elves, so this year.

Really?

I've seen no rumours on a Bretonnian update (beyond the speculation of "they haven't had one in forever, so they should get one if they aren't squatted")

Even Natfka is only fishing about with new editions, campaigns, scenario books, etc.. no Brets in sight.

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Release Schedule
May-Wood Elves
June- 7th edition
July-Orks
August-Campaigns
September-Fantasy 9th edition starter and book
October-Blood Angels
November-Empire and Caverns of Screams (scenario book)

Bretonnia coming after Wood Elves is part of Hastings' predictions about 2 years ago, and they have been correct since then.
At that time, rumours were usually first posted on Warseer and noone knew Naftka. Too bad, Hastings and Harry don't post rumours anymore. Makes finding reliable rumours more difficult.

Check this thread for a complete list of Hastings predictions:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/371300.page

Those only seem to confirm the lack of rumours about Brets. There is a Brets-follow-Wood-Elves in early 2013 (!) rumour by Scoopdeta (?), with a reference to both Harry and Hastings saying they heard nothing.

 Kroothawk wrote:


Bretonnians:

Harry wrote:Release date: Unknown
Rumours of release following Wood Elves Early to mid 2013 release. (Scoopdeta)
(Making Bret’s mid to late 2013)
Rumours that one of three Warhammer books being done (and nearly finished) is Bret’s / been in development "active playtesting" since 2010.
"I have heard nothing about Bretonninas". (Harry and Hastings)

Am I missing something?

Having Bretonnia in the teaser WE video is a positive for them not being squatted.

Plus pretty much the entire finecast range for Bretonnia has been taken off of the GW website and is no longer available for order. Which is common as stocks dwindle and a new release is on the horizon.

My guess is sometime this year we get a few new plastic heroes, a combo questing/grail knights box, and several other goodies. Only Bretonnia, Beastmen, and Skaven need an update after WE. Of the three, Bretonnia have the oldest book with the smallest range, Skaven are working fine right now, and Beastmen just need some point tweaks. Hopefully we get a fancy new book after the next two inevitable months of 40k shenanigans.

Sure.

But "guesswork" based on past patterns and probabilities (a book long in the tooth, a recent appearance in a video, etc..) and a "rumour" of someone who saw/heard work on the book/new miniatures are very different things.

Part of the problem is the disconnect between "probabilities" and "rumours". For all we know about "GW release shedules", etc.. in general, Bretonnians should be right around the corner. Yet rumours are nowhere to be seen.

The link Kroothawk posted probably has more false rumours about Dwarfs (Plastic Slayer?), even after substracting the true ones, than it has rumours about Brets in total, and even those are years old.

While all Bretonnian armies may LOOK the same, every Bret player I watch in Batreps or play against has a very different and distinct style. Some go very character-heavy, with paladin walls and the like, to create a very aggressive list that pushes to crash through the enemy turn 2 or 3. Others use a more cautious "dance around while raining comets and trebuchets until things look optimal for a charge" approach. Others like to just load up on knights, keep their characters cheap, and try to punch through enemies on the charge with lots of ranks to break steadfast. There are also as many paladin and lord builds as there are Bretonnian players, each one with a slightly different style.

Yeah every Bret army includes a HKB lord, two trebs, a unit of peg knights, and lots of knights. But that's like saying that every VC army includes lots of dogs and zombies and a killy vampire. Of course they do, but how the rest of it is constructed really changes the build.


Ogres, though, have always bored me. To the people saying that Brets lack tactical flexibility, I struggle to see how the same doesn't apply to Ogres as well. They're only slightly less point-and-click than Warriors of Chaos tend to be.

riburn3 wrote:
Having Bretonnia in the teaser WE video is a positive for them not being squatted.

Indeed. They may just be Sister-of-Battled.

Bretonnia is arguably the most beautiful WHFB army. It has some variety, both in tactics and army composition, but some builds are definitely more efficient than others : the whole army is probably slightly underpowered, while characters in lance formation, pegasus knights and trebuchets may be slightly overpowered.

That's probably why most brets armies seem to look and taste the same.

 Zweischneid wrote:
Am I missing something?

Yes, I talked about the post I linked to, you talked about am link in that post linking to another post.
The sequence by Hastings was correct 2 years in advance and still is, only the actual date can be different.

2014:
Fantasy releases: Dark Elves, Dwarfs, Wood Elves (source Hastings, Harry puts 9th edition here)

2015
Fantasy releases: Bretonnia, Orks& Goblins plus 9th edition, also Beastmen next (source Hastings)

The post you are quoting is an old summary by Harry of all existing rumours, not just by Harry or Hastings but including some unreliable sources like ghost21 as well.
It is true that Harry and Hastings haven't heard or posted details about the Bretonnia release, but Hastings gave the relative release date, after Wood Elves.

Dealing with rumours is a bit more difficult than believing everything or nothing posted by Natfka. That's why I post some things by him and other things not.

riburn3 wrote:
Having Bretonnia in the teaser WE video is a positive for them not being squatted.

Plus pretty much the entire finecast range for Bretonnia has been taken off of the GW website and is no longer available for order. Which is common as stocks dwindle and a new release is on the horizon.

My guess is sometime this year we get a few new plastic heroes, a combo questing/grail knights box, and several other goodies. Only Bretonnia, Beastmen, and Skaven need an update after WE. Of the three, Bretonnia have the oldest book with the smallest range, Skaven are working fine right now, and Beastmen just need some point tweaks. Hopefully we get a fancy new book after the next two inevitable months of 40k shenanigans.

Just saw the video, hopefully that means Bretonnia will not be thrown under the bus as some people have claimed .