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This came up the other other day:
Situation; I parked my Razorback between my Techmarine and my opponents Vindicator. It was done in a way that he could not draw line of sight to the Techmarine. He fired at the rear of the Razorback, also covering the Techmarine and rolled a direct hit. Then would to wound the Techmarine and killed it, I argued he couldn't see him therefore could not kill him. He gave me a 5+ cover.

Having looked it up I find the rule for blast a little confusing;
In that the rule states you must aim at a model you can see, then it is okay to SCATTER onto one you cannot. Since it did not scatter surely the normal rules for LoS apply? ie the tank is in the way...

Sorry if this has been raised elsewhere as I could not see it when searching.

Not sure, but here is the errata if it helps any. Says wounds can be allocated even if out of LoS, but only for the target unit. Not sure if that applies as the techmarine wasn't the target unit.

Page 33 – Blast & Large Blast, Line of Sight
Add to the end of the final paragraph: “Remember to keep the
wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule in their
own wound pool, and that wounds from this pool can be
allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out
of sight of any models from the attacking unit”.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
Not sure, but here is the errata if it helps any. Says wounds can be allocated even if out of LoS, but only for the target unit. Not sure if that applies as the techmarine wasn't the target unit.

Page 33 – Blast & Large Blast, Line of Sight
Add to the end of the final paragraph: “Remember to keep the
wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule in their
own wound pool, and that wounds from this pool can be
allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out
of sight of any models from the attacking unit”.

Very much applies. You can hit a unit you can't see with Blast & Large Blast, and their wound pool can go onto any models they hit. It's simply a matter of not being able to manually select a target you can't see.

I hope it's clear I'm not arguing if you can hurt models you can't see, I'm just arguing wether you can if you don't scatter.

 Brachiaraidos wrote:

Very much applies. You can hit a unit you can't see with Blast & Large Blast, and their wound pool can go onto any models they hit. It's simply a matter of not being able to manually select a target you can't see.

So, is placing the marker of a model you cannot see manually selecting one? Ie placing it over the tank in a way that also covers the Techmarine prior to rolling for scatter?

Harial89 wrote:
I hope it's clear I'm not arguing if you can hurt models you can't see, I'm just arguing wether you can if you don't scatter.

 Brachiaraidos wrote:

Very much applies. You can hit a unit you can't see with Blast & Large Blast, and their wound pool can go onto any models they hit. It's simply a matter of not being able to manually select a target you can't see.

So, is placing the marker of a model you cannot see manually selecting one? Ie placing it over the tank in a way that also covers the Techmarine prior to rolling for scatter?

Please read page 33 of the 6th edition rulebook, third paragraph under the heading 'Blast & Large Blast' for the rules dictating how you place markers.

I have and, as stated in my opening post, that is where the problem I have is coming from. It states that (paraphrasing) "it is acceptable to scatter beyond range and LoS. And in THESE CASES hits are worked out as normal and can hit units out of sight/range".
The "in these cases" bit is what I'm struggling with, because anything that follows is only ok if it scattered, a direct hit would still not be able to hit a unit it can't see? Is how I'm reading it. The errata only serves to remind us to allocate wounds correctly after it has scattered.

(When I get home ill edit this, or post a new reply, with the full rule quoted)

So long as you are firing with the centre of the marker over a unit and with no coverage- partial or otherwise- of friendly models, the shot is valid.

Hits are resolved for anything under the template in any scenario- so if it's aimed over a squad behind a transport, and lands where intended, hits will be generated on both. As the BRB states- just look at the template from above. Everything under it is hit.

To quote the FAQ again:

"Page 33 – Blast & Large Blast, Line of Sight
Add to the end of the final paragraph: “Remember to keep the
wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule in their
own wound pool, and that wounds from this pool can be
allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out
of sight of any models from the attacking unit"

So even though the BRB paragraph reads that unsaved wounds from Blasts are resolved as normal shooting attacks, the FAQ confirms that even none-scattered shots are not restricted by LOS.

Basically it's alright if he targets the razorback he can see and happens to hit a model he can't. What he couldn't do is target a unit he can't see whilst happening to clip the model he can see.

centre of the blast must be placed in LOS, the rest of it hits whatever it hits, as long as it's on the same level.

so yes, he can hit the techmarine hiding behind the razorback, as long as his target was the razorback.