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Seriously, goddamnit Mozilla, why? Why do companies keep hiring some pretentious web design graduates to "streamline the user experience"(code for "rip off Chrome/Apple") and bloody always do it in a way that completely prevents people from keeping things as they were? It took me months to get everything just-so - the right theme, all the buttons and alerts exactly where I wanted, the right collection of addons, and then along comes Captain Starbucks to "revolutionize" the way I browse, by essentially making everything the opposite of what I wanted, and breaking what little remained.

I mean hell, I can understand companies that are making a for-profit product trying to force change on users with every major iteration, I think it's skeevy as hell but at least there changing things around every so often gives them an excuse to stop updating older products people have paid for and force them to pay for the new shiny if they want the security updates, but on a free browser? There's no rationale for it other than "we've come up with a new GUI and you're going to like it or feth off". If people who were using Firefox wanted to have their browsing experience dictated to them, they could have switched to IE or Chrome, the whole point of Firefox was that they largely left the user experience up to the user, and this new version isn't even superior it's objectively worse; the text on the menu bar has gone fuzzy and it stutters when you scroll. I can't even roll back to version 28 because half the stuff I used to customise my browser isn't available anymore.

Ach, TL;DR - if you like your Firefox browser as you have it, don't download update 29, it's utter pish.

I stopped using Firefox way back when it was Firefox 5 or so. They had a nasty memory leak and seemed to have no real interest in fixing it, just as Chrome was really starting to shine.

I am eagerly waiting for Firefox 29 to hit the stable repositories of ArchLinux. I want to see if the new interface looks good.

 Ouze wrote:
I stopped using Firefox way back when it was Firefox 5 or so. They had a nasty memory leak and seemed to have no real interest in fixing it, just as Chrome was really starting to shine.

This. Got tired of crashes and Chrome went so much faster at the time.
Never got around to changing back and doesn't seem like it matters now.

Firefox is the only browser I've seen that causes flash video to crash in under a minute each and every time. Even Internet Explorer can't do that.

I like that Firefox doesn't use the built in Windows proxy options. Foxyproxy is AMAZING if you need regexp proxy support, otherwise, I don't regret switching to Chrome.

I've never "got" Chrome myself; I spend an inordinate amount of effort keeping my PC clean and my browser secure, why on earth would I download a browser actually created by the kings of spyware themselves?

Calling Google the king of spyware is a bit unfair. They usually do no do spyware. They do internet tracking, and their toolbar was a gakky, horrible crime against software, but apart from that, they are okay.

I am fairly browser agnostic, but I switched from Firefox to Chrome a couple of years ago and found it faster and cleaner.

My wife uses Safari a lot, because she doesn't really care about what browser to use and that is the one at the top of the list of applications.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Calling Google the king of spyware is a bit unfair. They usually do no do spyware. They do internet tracking, and their toolbar was a gakky, horrible crime against software, but apart from that, they are okay.

Hey now! In the context of the time it was released, a toolbar that not only blocked popups as well as giving you quick access to search wass revolutionary. I mean, it essentially did 2 things and both of those functions have since been incorporated into virtually every browser that exists, so not sure how awful it was.

So far as privacy, unless you're running Tails over a anonymized VPN I doubt it really matters what browser you use, privacywise.

 Yodhrin wrote:

I mean hell, I can understand companies that are making a for-profit product trying to force change on users with every major iteration, I think it's skeevy as hell but at least there changing things around every so often gives them an excuse to stop updating older products people have paid for and force them to pay for the new shiny if they want the security updates, but on a free browser?

I think people need to take something from that. Perhaps, just maybe, neither company are trying to do it to screw people over and are trying to make their product better. They may fail, but they are not trying to be mean and nasty. Technology and fashion changes. In general things get better, but people don't like change.

 Ouze wrote:
Hey now! In the context of the time it was released, a toolbar that not only blocked popups as well as giving you quick access to search wass revolutionary. I mean, it essentially did 2 things and both of those functions have since been incorporated into virtually every browser that exists, so not sure how awful it was.

Maybe. But all I know is that my uncle bought some laptop, and when I helped him setting everything up, we had no use for the toolbar, but it was pretty much impossible to remove. Everything was made so that even someone computer-savvy would have a lot of trouble removing it. So, not cool, not cool at all.

Every time a browser update, or anything else I use updates.
I save to my hard drive. If I don't like it, I uninstall it, and reinstall the old version.

I looked at Chrome ages ago, but ended up sticking with Firefox because of the number of add-ons I actually use, many of which weren't available at the time with chrome. Things like Modify Headers, video download apps, foxy proxy, script/ad blockers and things to get past various annoyances (like right click blockers ).

I dunno, I might look into Chrome again, but do they have options/3rd party apps for those sorts of things these days?

Holy crap; I have only just noticed this...

I use Firefox in work, and Chrome when I'm at home. I've only just clicked on that they're now a lot more similar than they used to be!

 Maddermax wrote:
I looked at Chrome ages ago, but ended up sticking with Firefox because of the number of add-ons I actually use, many of which weren't available at the time with chrome. Things like Modify Headers, video download apps, foxy proxy, script/ad blockers and things to get past various annoyances (like right click blockers ).

I dunno, I might look into Chrome again, but do they have options/3rd party apps for those sorts of things these days?

They've pretty much always had them.

I switched from firefox to chrome as soon as Chrome came out and have never had a reason to look back.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Hey now! In the context of the time it was released, a toolbar that not only blocked popups as well as giving you quick access to search wass revolutionary. I mean, it essentially did 2 things and both of those functions have since been incorporated into virtually every browser that exists, so not sure how awful it was.

Maybe. But all I know is that my uncle bought some laptop, and when I helped him setting everything up, we had no use for the toolbar, but it was pretty much impossible to remove. Everything was made so that even someone computer-savvy would have a lot of trouble removing it. So, not cool, not cool at all.

That sounds more like some kind of masquerading malware than the actual google product. As I recall it showed up in appwiz, and there was a icon right on the bar for uninstalling it.

 Maddermax wrote:
I dunno, I might look into Chrome again, but do they have options/3rd party apps for those sorts of things these days?

There's an app store with many equivalents for Chrome. Foxyproxy, Modify Headers, Adblock Plus, and so on are all available.

 Ouze wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Hey now! In the context of the time it was released, a toolbar that not only blocked popups as well as giving you quick access to search wass revolutionary. I mean, it essentially did 2 things and both of those functions have since been incorporated into virtually every browser that exists, so not sure how awful it was.

Maybe. But all I know is that my uncle bought some laptop, and when I helped him setting everything up, we had no use for the toolbar, but it was pretty much impossible to remove. Everything was made so that even someone computer-savvy would have a lot of trouble removing it. So, not cool, not cool at all.

That sounds more like some kind of masquerading malware than the actual google product. As I recall it showed right up in appwiz, and there was a icon right on the bar for uninstalling it.

Yes, yes there was. There were also 300 other toolbars that were malicious as feth.

 Soladrin wrote:
Yes, yes there was. There were also 300 other toolbars that were malicious as feth.

If it's properly configured, it should look like this.

Looks like my dads pc.

 Ouze wrote:
That sounds more like some kind of masquerading malware than the actual google product.

Masquerading malware coming preinstalled on a computer bought in a store from one of the biggest chain in France ? Unlikely. Possible, be very unlikely. I am more inclined to believing Google (or maybe someone else who benefited from the preinstalled Google toolbar) actually did some dickish move.

Well, at least when I install ArchLinux, it comes free from any kind of crapware and adware. Oh, and from any graphical interface too .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
That sounds more like some kind of masquerading malware than the actual google product.

Masquerading malware coming preinstalled on a computer bought in a store from one of the biggest chain in France ? Unlikely. Possible, be very unlikely. I am more inclined to believing Google (or maybe someone else who benefited from the preinstalled Google toolbar) actually did some dickish move.

Well, at least when I install ArchLinux, it comes free from any kind of crapware and adware. Oh, and from any graphical interface too .

Masquerading malware coming preinstalled on a prebuilt computer coming from a big chain? I've never heard anything that likely before. Prebuilt pc's are always full of gak.

Any reference ? It would require either a hacker managing to infect the prebuilt image that gets installed in every computer, or that the constructor is okay with being sued by Google on a case their are absolutely sure to loose, and with possibly huge fines/punishment involved.
I mean, installing deceitful crap like “free” preview of, say, an antivirus, that will then turn into a huge pain in the ass to remove and will constantly ask the user if they want to upgrade to a paying full version, yeah, that is usual business for them. It is not like customers can fight back. But impersonating some product from a huge, well-known company with loads of cash and power like Google ? Nope, Google can fight back, will not do .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, uh, apparently Firefox 29 is already in [extra], but my repositories are not up to date. Or something. Should be here soon .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Calling Google the king of spyware is a bit unfair. They usually do no do spyware. They do internet tracking, and their toolbar was a gakky, horrible crime against software, but apart from that, they are okay.

Hyperbole perhaps, but to my mind their tracking is borderline spyware already, so a browser made by them hardly appeals. Google's customers are not their users, the users are the product, and they've shown a consistent tendency to view user privacy and security as totally secondary to finding new ways to exploit their "resource".

 Ouze wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Calling Google the king of spyware is a bit unfair. They usually do no do spyware. They do internet tracking, and their toolbar was a gakky, horrible crime against software, but apart from that, they are okay.

Hey now! In the context of the time it was released, a toolbar that not only blocked popups as well as giving you quick access to search wass revolutionary. I mean, it essentially did 2 things and both of those functions have since been incorporated into virtually every browser that exists, so not sure how awful it was.

So far as privacy, unless you're running Tails over a anonymized VPN I doubt it really matters what browser you use, privacywise.

I'm not a paranoid whackaloon, I just don't like the idea of a corporation tracking my behaviour and then selling a "profile" of me to other corporations with essentially no oversight. A proper VPN isn't necessary to prevent that, just the right addons, a thorough malware scanning schedule, and a little care in what sites you visit, and while I think technically you can get all or most of the applicable addons(HTTPSEverywhere/HTTPSFinder, AdBlock, FlashBlock, NoScript, Ghostery etc etc) for Chrome as well as Firefox, I just don't trust Google enough that I'd willingly use a browser that they could, if they so choose, modify "under the hood" to circumvent aspects of those privacy addons without people knowing.

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

I mean hell, I can understand companies that are making a for-profit product trying to force change on users with every major iteration, I think it's skeevy as hell but at least there changing things around every so often gives them an excuse to stop updating older products people have paid for and force them to pay for the new shiny if they want the security updates, but on a free browser?

I think people need to take something from that. Perhaps, just maybe, neither company are trying to do it to screw people over and are trying to make their product better. They may fail, but they are not trying to be mean and nasty. Technology and fashion changes. In general things get better, but people don't like change.

You'll note if you look again that in the very next line I do in fact provide a third possible reason, but I suppose acknowledging that would have made it harder to imply my consternation is just down to me being cantankerous and change-averse. I have no problems with change, when that change serves a purpose; FF29 adds many new features, and though I'll likely use almost none of them(they're mostly for website developers), I welcome that advancement. However, none of those changes necessitated a wholesale overhaul of the UI, and they certainly did not require that said overhaul be mandatory. They chose to remove the addon bar, they chose to completely change the layout of the buttons, they chose to set the tabs above the address bar and disable the ability to switch it back, not because any of those things were a necessary foundation for new genuine functionality, but because they decided that the new UI they'd designed was hot gak and if anyone disagreed, tough. When the customisable nature of the user-defined experience is the major feature of your software, I don't think people who were attracted to the software for exactly that reason are unreasonable if they get annoyed when a substantial chunk of that customisation is arbitrarily and unnecessarily removed.

So, now I got the new firefox.
It does not use my icon theme for buttons like Home page anymore. No change to the Preference window ? That one has stayed the same for a very long time and I think it could greatly benefit from an overhaul.
The new combo-button for bookmark is strange. Now, nothing in the interface looks like something made with a classic UI toolkit, everything seems customized/specially designed. I do not know if this is a good or bad thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Found that on LinuxFr for people that do not like the new interface :
https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/
https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addon/the-addon-bar/
Enjoy, people .

 Yodhrin wrote:

I'm not a paranoid whackaloon, I just don't like the idea of a corporation tracking my behaviour and then selling a "profile" of me to other corporations with essentially no oversight. A proper VPN isn't necessary to prevent that, just the right addons, a thorough malware scanning schedule, and a little care in what sites you visit, and while I think technically you can get all or most of the applicable addons(HTTPSEverywhere/HTTPSFinder, AdBlock, FlashBlock, NoScript, Ghostery etc etc) for Chrome as well as Firefox, I just don't trust Google enough that I'd willingly use a browser that they could, if they so choose, modify "under the hood" to circumvent aspects of those privacy addons without people knowing.

If you're on Windows, you're probably wasting your effort.

Hum, I wonder : how many people on Dakka use Linux, Windows, OSX, BSD, Haiku, GNU Hurd and so on ?
I would bet there has already been a poll on it, but the search function is not working here (I got this error message : “An error has occurred. For detailed error information, please see the HTML source code, and contact the forum Administrator. net.jforum.exceptions.SearchException: Sorry, search is temporarily disabled while we rebuild our search indexes. Thanks for your patience!” . And since it was not the first time…)

Of course, then you're trusting a poll.

I use Oracle Linux and Windows 7 at work, and Windows 7, Linux Mint, and Mavericks all at home, depending on which computer I'm on and what I'm doing, unless I'm doing something really bizarre, in which case I'm on the nearby bar's wifi using Raspbian. probably not logged into dakka in that case though.

I use windows with Firefox & IE at home and an iPad 2 with Safari everywhere else. I wish all my favorite elements could be combined into a single browser, but alas it will never be.

 daedalus wrote:
Of course, then you're trusting a poll.

Well, it is not like I was planning to make any kind of important decision based on the result of said poll anyway .
Oracle Linux ? Is that good ?
I have some dual-boot ArchLinux/Ubuntu on my laptop. But I mostly use ArchLinux. Because rolling release and cool and edgy .