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So, someone recently mentioned that resin was super-toxic, and immediately started an argument. I've asked a few people, and have received a huge spread of answers, ranging from 'it's a negligible threat; don't worry about it' to 'don't touch it in anything less than a hazmat suit!'
Really, I'm primarily concerned with Finecast resin. (To a lesser extent, Forgeworld resin.) I'm working on some Wracks and need to know if it's safe to work on them with my son in the room.
Fine, airborne particulates of any description (such as resin dust from sanding) have implications if inhaled in sufficient quantities.
Resin itself, once cured, is non toxic, at least anything wargamers will contact, but the components can be toxic individually before they're mixed.
Anything else anyone tells you is based off bad info or supposition.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Jimsolo wrote: So, someone recently mentioned that resin was super-toxic, and immediately started an argument. I've asked a few people, and have received a huge spread of answers, ranging from 'it's a negligible threat; don't worry about it' to 'don't touch it in anything less than a hazmat suit!'
Really, I'm primarily concerned with Finecast resin. (To a lesser extent, Forgeworld resin.) I'm working on some Wracks and need to know if it's safe to work on them with my son in the room.
For the most part, the 'toxic' aspects of resin come from fumes from the curing process and the liquid uncured touching your skin. Most of the resin once cured is not toxic to touch and the ones which say 'non-toxic' can be ingested without worry (apart from obstruction)
The dust from sanding is an irritant to lungs. Irritated lungs can cause issues... and nothing is to say 30 years of constant exposure won't give you cancer... but 30 years of irritants can do lots of stuff.
So your 'glue' is probably more toxic than the resin models, but I probably wouldn't allow a young kid to sand resin without being in a well ventilated area or using a mask.
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Unfortunately, the windows in my house don't have screens, and if I opened them the cats would jump out. So it seems like I'm stuck with unfiled minis for the time being.
Jimsolo wrote: Unfortunately, the windows in my house don't have screens, and if I opened them the cats would jump out. So it seems like I'm stuck with unfiled minis for the time being.
If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++
I myself scrape mold lines with my knife rather than file on smaller minis, so no hazard, the particles are too few and too large. For FW or larger, I either wear a dust mask (small job) or take it on my open-air porch and wear the dust mask (large jobs).
I tried making a .... thing out of a large flat box and some duct tape and a fan, and the box had a hole cut in it with some screen atop it. Like a negative pressure mat, if you will. It didn't work very well, the fan didn't pull enough air. I suspect a vacuum cleaner might have worked better but to be frank just getting up and going onto the porch is probably the best bet.
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Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
I would recommend just filing/sanding carefully. Then vacuum once you are done. How often is resin airborne when you file? For me the answer is only when I use an electronic device.
You will definitely want to vacuum the resin up after you are done though as long term exposure to resin dust (and any fine particles) will tend to cause chronic conditions, pneumonia, allergies, etc. Your lungs are meant to be particle free.
He definitely won't be sanding for a few years yet! But I work in my living room, and I wasn't sure if he was safe playing fifteen feet away.
I have no idea what sort of wood working experience you have, but the threat from resin is the same as doing any woodworking that generates sawdust. Getting a large amount of foreign particles in your lungs of any type, especially if it happens repeatedly, is not good.
Emphasis on large amount. I still have my doubts that your average wargamer will be exposed to sufficient dust over their lifetime to statistically alter their chances of developing any sort of respiratory problem as a result.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I tried making a .... thing out of a large flat box and some duct tape and a fan, and the box had a hole cut in it with some screen atop it. Like a negative pressure mat, if you will. It didn't work very well, the fan didn't pull enough air. I suspect a vacuum cleaner might have worked better but to be frank just getting up and going onto the porch is probably the best bet.
The "thing" would be a downdraft table for those who are interested in other dust control options.
Smaller benchtop ones can be powered by a ShopVac, large ones are self powered or use big dust collectors. They work pretty well, but are more than most people need. Another option is a bench top dust collector like this:
I use one similiar to that on my bench and it also works well enough for pulling in overspray from casual airbrush use (would likely handle heavy airbrush use, but for that I use a different set up.
As has been mentioned, resin when cured is safe. Most major brand urethane resins are actually FDA approved for food use. When uncured, it is still mostly safe. Unlike polyester resins, even the raw components of urethane resin are pretty benign. Provided that they dont get overly hot while curing they dont release any fumes.
Sanding all things is an issue. Plastic, wood, resin, plaster... It doesnt matter what it is, lungs do not like solid chunks of stuff to get stuck in them. Everything is relative though, and you likely will be breathing in far more dust (and bad dust like silicates being kicked up by cars, clay powders blown by the wind and organics which are always present) while walking across the street than you would while sanding resin miniatures for 20 years.
The average gamer looking to pull some excess sprue off, or repair a gap isn't going to see enough resin dust to impair his health. You are experience a greater potential impact if you spend an few hours at a bar/restaurant that allows smoking in the area you are in.
If you are doing your own casting, the potential is a bit greater, but only to the extent that you run the risk of greating fines that consist of only partially cured resins. the uncured components of resin, no matter the type, are typically much more hazardous than the final cured product.
Here is what OSHA has to say about health hazards related to resin useage.
Honestly, in a well ventilated room, using hand tools and not power tools and taking appropriate percautions, I would be more worried about hobby knives and isocyonate glue fumes with a little one than I would a small bit of resin dust.
As a general rule, if you can see it with the naked eye it is either too small to get buried into your lungs and the body can "snot" it out or you are generating such vast quatities of it that you are probably a regulated entity by your state or federal govt.
I don't think I've ever heard of wet sanding before. Is that just like...using some kind of sandpaper device with a wet sponge or somesuch on the other side? (Kind of like a wet palette?)
Jimsolo wrote: I don't think I've ever heard of wet sanding before. Is that just like...using some kind of sandpaper device with a wet sponge or somesuch on the other side? (Kind of like a wet palette?)
Jimsolo wrote: I don't think I've ever heard of wet sanding before. Is that just like...using some kind of sandpaper device with a wet sponge or somesuch on the other side? (Kind of like a wet palette?)
This may help.
That is one way...
While I don't normally anymore (occasionally still do, but more for the high shine nature as opposed to concerns regarding dust...) for small scale stuff, I actually prefer to use submersion as opposed to the mess created with water on the work bench. Get a shallow, wide container...something like a Rubbermaid sweater box. Fill it about half way and do your sanding underwater. Unless you are overly exuberant in your sanding, all the water should remain inside the container. Since the sanding takes place under water - you don't have to worry about the mess of resin/water mud (which eventually dries to just resin dust and defeats the purpose of wet sanding for dust control).
When you are done - take it to the sink and dump it out. Rinse till no more residue is visible and wipe it down. Don't worry about the resin going into the ground water...remember the concern is with solids not a chemical leaching from the resin. Solids filters at the sanitation department (or layers of sand and dirt if you have a septic system) will filter that out harmlessly.
On the workbench though, as in the video, you have to deal with cleaning up all the water mess, avoiding damaging your work surface (many hobby benches are not water proof), residual dust on tools, surfaces and even your models... You can do it that way, I just find it is more work.
Jimsolo wrote: I don't think I've ever heard of wet sanding before. Is that just like...using some kind of sandpaper device with a wet sponge or somesuch on the other side? (Kind of like a wet palette?)
This may help.
That is one way...
While I don't normally anymore (occasionally still do, but more for the high shine nature as opposed to concerns regarding dust...) for small scale stuff, I actually prefer to use submersion as opposed to the mess created with water on the work bench. Get a shallow, wide container...something like a Rubbermaid sweater box. Fill it about half way and do your sanding underwater. Unless you are overly exuberant in your sanding, all the water should remain inside the container. Since the sanding takes place under water - you don't have to worry about the mess of resin/water mud (which eventually dries to just resin dust and defeats the purpose of wet sanding for dust control).
When you are done - take it to the sink and dump it out. Rinse till no more residue is visible and wipe it down. Don't worry about the resin going into the ground water...remember the concern is with solids not a chemical leaching from the resin. Solids filters at the sanitation department (or layers of sand and dirt if you have a septic system) will filter that out harmlessly.
On the workbench though, as in the video, you have to deal with cleaning up all the water mess, avoiding damaging your work surface (many hobby benches are not water proof), residual dust on tools, surfaces and even your models... You can do it that way, I just find it is more work.
Thanks Sean! That's a really good idea. It's a good thing you mentioned this before I glued them down to their (cork) basing material!
+1 to this again. Wet sand if you are concerned with dust. Have a bowl of water and some wet&dry paper. Do it in small amounts and the dust tends to not get airborne. Then vacuum it up.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
Thanks! Due to limitations of size and space, I may just pay to have it done (since I'm already going to pay to have this army painted ANYWAY, what's the harm?)
But I work in my living room, and I wasn't sure if he was safe playing fifteen feet away.
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