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Hey folks! I'm trying to work out a good list or three to form a guideline for what I should be painting as I work on building up a usable space marine army. I haven't played in months and I never got to play a whole lot anyway, so my knowledge of what is good to use and when is fairly shaky, and so I'm here asking for your help

This first list is a combination of things I remember hearing may/do work, and things that I have or like. I don't have anything new that was introduced with the 6th ed marines codex and would like to avoid such things (centurions, stalker/hunter, etc). I also have no fortifications, but if they're just that necessary to bring along, I'll have to pick them up when I start playing anyway so feel free to include those if necessary.

Anyways, I realize the beatstick chapter master is probably a bit much for 1500, but he just sounds like so much fun. I think this list is 20something points short of 1500, but it's going to get modified so heavily I didn't figure such a rough draft needed to be so precise.

Chapter Master - 260
artificer armor
bike
digital weapons
the shield eternal
thunder hammer

Troop Bike Squad-166
x5
2x grav gun (people are still crazy about these things right?)
combi-grav

Troop Bike Squad-166
x5
2x grav gun
combi-grav

Scout squad-110
x5
combi flamer
land speeder storm with heavy flamer

Scout squad-60
x5
4x sniper rifle
sgt sniper rifle

Stormtalon Gunship-125
Skyhammer missiles (seemed cost-effective?)

Ironclad Dreadnought - 180
seismic hammer
2x underslung flamers
drop pod

Ironclad Dreadnought - 180
seismic hammer
2x underslung flamers
drop pod

Predator-115
autocannon
lascannon sponsons

Predator-115
autocannon
lascannon sponsons

1477/1500 or so.

So, for the most part, I would like to take the beatstick chapter master, and that unlocking bikers as troops seems to imply I should take them. If 1500 is too low for that character, I'll be happy to bump the list to 1750, 2k, or whatever. Otherwise, I would like to use lots of vehicles since I've got them and IH are seemingly vehicle friendly.

So, be brutal if necessary, I'm sure this needs a fair bit of work before it's battle-ready. Thanks in advance

One thing I can say is take another stormtalon. One will just die quickly to the envitable antiair every army needs. 2 stormtalons work well. Skyhammers are the best option.

To be honest I think it doesn't need to be heavily modified as you suggest. It has a good balance between attacking units and a few long range guns and objective sitters.

I think the above post hit the nail on the head, you lack anti-air, and since you don't wish to take the Stalker/Hunter route then another Stormtalon is best. I recommend dropping one of the Dreadnoughts, two isn't a good number for pod's so it's not going to be a massive loss.

Beyond that it's minor changes, digitals weapons on the CM aren't always necessary, take an auspex instead, those things are really handy. Any remaining points can be spent on increasing the size of your troop squads.

I realized shortly after I posted the list I only had two pods, told you I was rusty. Since its an ironclad though, dropping to one should be doable, he's tough enough to remain annoying.

Two storm talons huh? Yeah that's probably the way to go with that.

Honestly, I want to like Dreadnoughts... but you can 1-shot them too easily, or glance them out before you can get into close combat. They can be effective if you have lots of them dropping in turn 1... but you are still going to be at a disadvantage since things can get away from you before you engage in close combat. I would keep it to 1 and drop him against a simple target, like a small squad camping an objective (don't throw him right into their lines). That way, he'll probably wipe that squad and then require the enemy to pull away attention from your force to deal with him and reclaim that objective.

As for the Predators... I don't think the're good. Again, they are just a vehicle that can be destroyed in one shot. (I'm kinda being harsh on vehicles here, but I have just not had luck with them in 6th edition). I would replace both of them with Thunderfire Cannons. Two of those mean 2 bolstered ruins, and they are a T7, 3+ unit that's a pain to deal with.. and if they assault it, the Techmarine is a beast too... and barrage is excellent!

I'd take the extra points, drop one ironclad, and buy a Stormraven to put some scouts in. I'd convert the sniper scouts into close combat scouts with a melta bomb and put them in there. Sniper Scouts have never performed for me...and at almost the same points as 5 BS4 marines with bolters... there's just no comparison. A Stormraven with IWND is a real pain... and armed with a Multimelta, will provide some decent anti-flier/vehicle firepower.

You're pretty light on scoring, durable troops so I'd drop one bike squad for a Tactical Squad in a Rhino. One bike squad meshes well with your beastly Chapter Master, who can protect them. The other may be too few bodies to survive on their own... you'll have to try it and see. I would scrape up some points to turn them into a 10-man squad in a rhino with a weapon of your choice (melta probably).

I would add melta bombs to the bike sgt. so he can contribute in close combat with whatever you're chapter master is going to be beating down (MC or vehicle) if it's not another IC.

I love the 5 bolter scouts in a land speeder storm with heavy flamer... a go-to unit I use in every game.

Finally, the Chapter Master.... If you're running Iron Hands, you might as well investigate Clan Raukaan for the Gorgon's Chain (instead of the Shield Eternal). It gives you a 5+ FnP to start which is nice, and rings in at 5 points cheaper. Some people do prefer the Shield Eternal, which is fine... just throwing it out there if you need to scrape up points. Also, I usually run the Gorgon's Chain + Axe of Medusa w/bolt pistol for an additional attack. I know it's not S8 all the time (only when hitting on a 6) but most of the time that's sufficient (especially paired with digital weapons). I like that the chain frees up the extra hand for the possibility of an additional attack... I mean 6 attacks on the charge is pretty nasty from that guy. I also give him melta bombs sometimes so he can handle vehicles easily... if the points are there.

Hope that helps

I"ve heard of the Clan Ruakaan thing, and when I actually get around to playing I may investigate it further, want to make sure I'll be playing enough to warrant additional purchases. I've also heard of the gorgon chain allowing for a lightning claw to go with the hammer, one of my favorite high cost combos, extra attack since they're both unwieldy and going at initiative can be nice.

Good to hear you like bolter scouts in the storm, I've been wanting to try those forever.

I kind of figured dreads and predators would be sort of on the lower end of the spectrum when I started making the list, but even if they're squishy I really like vehicles for this game. They're more or less what makes 40k unique compared to other games I have played (mostly fantasy and scifi skirmish). I'm definitely leaning towards one lone-wolf harasser ironclad, especially for this points level. As for the predators... they may be better suited to a list that involves more tanks, though I don't have a storm raven with which to replace them either.

Definitely some things to consider, so thanks I"ll have to look at working out a couple of lists incorporating some of what has been mentioned here.

Hmm, I had a look at some things and thought I'd throw out revised version of the previous list. How are people finding the stalker/hunter ? I don't really need another rhino kit and I can't seem to find a reasonable price for just the extra sprues that make the kit a special little snowflake, but if I'm considering picking up another stormtalon a storm raven, I may as well consider all the options. Plus they're tanks!

Chapter Master-250
artificer, bike, thunder hammer, shield eternal

Ironclad Dreadnought-180
2x heavy flamer, drop pod

Biker troops-166
5 bikers, 2x grav, combi-grav

Biker troops-166
5 bikers, 2x grav, combi-grav

Tactical squad-195
10 marines, rhino, melta, multimelta

Scout squad-110
5 scouts, landspeeder storm with flamer, combi-flamer

Stormtalon Gunship-125
skyhammer missiles

Predator-115
autocannon, lascannon sponsons

Predator-115
autocannon, lascannon sponsons

Hunter-70
stock

1492/1500. The extra points will either buy somebody meltabombs, or swap the hunter out for a stalker if they're just hands down better.

Thoughts? I've added 10 more marines with a mobile bunker to pad out my scoring, and some additional anti-air. Will the hunter just get pulverized before it can help the storm talon out? Even if it's hiding behind the predators? This may be a bit more solid than the previous list, but is it tough enough?