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I'm trying to come up with some Iyanden goodness for a tourney I want to play in in a month or so.

I have way more wraithguard , but sine adding the farseer, I've had difficulty fitting them all in. I also find that units of 5 WG die pretty easily.

I would love to fit another wave serpent in, but can't quite make it fit

What so you think?
Farseer, Jetbike spear
Spiritseer. Wraith stone
Spirit seer stone of Alantih
7 wraithguard
6 wraithguard Dscythes
Waveserpant scatterlaser and cannon
6 jetbikers, two cannons
9 wraith blades with axes
Fire prism with Holofields
Night spinner with Holofields
Wraithknight with two cannons

this is not personally at you, but all Eldar players in general...

I would just love to see a list that doesn't have a Farseer on a jetbike for an HQ. With the fluff behind Farseers, it just doesn't make sense and it has been done to death already.

Let me start by saying that I love Iyanden, and have had an Iyanden army for a very very long time.

I'll follow up with: You shouldn't expect to win with an Iyanden list. Period. At 35 points a model, they're not even close to a terminator, in terms of survival or damage output.

Let me walk you through the problem, so you can start to see the best steps for avoiding it:

1) Wraithguard have a 12" range weapon.
This means that at most you should expect to shoot one time before becoming locked in HtH combat. Anyone who's ever had the pleasure of using their wraithguard in HtH already knows how it ends.

If you're going to use wraithguard, it needs to be a 6 man squad in a wave serpent, and they all need to have D-Scythes. If delivered to the right place and maneuvered properly, you can reasonably hope to cripple your target enough to stand a change in the ensuring HtH.

Except for this 1 unit of wraithguard, only take wraithblades. The wraithblades should have the default weapons IMHO. 1 Attack/Model just isn't enough to get the job done.

I would recommend you take 3 Wraithknights. The reason for this is simple: they advance quickly, and will distract your enemy enough to keep the LCs and MLs off of your Wraithblades. Wraithknights also take care of your anti-armor needs, and can kill models with 2+ in HtH, which, if you're taking my advice, the wraithblades won't be able to do.

If your opponent's weapons don't all ignore cover saves, your 'blades can benefit from having a warlock. Savings 1 in 3 lascannon shots is a lot better than none at 35pts a model.

I still like to play Iyanden, and I still enjoy it very much, I just don't expect to win.

bullyboy wrote:
this is not personally at you, but all Eldar players in general...

I would just love to see a list that doesn't have a Farseer on a jetbike for an HQ. With the fluff behind Farseers, it just doesn't make sense and it has been done to death already.

Right.
But a lone Jetseer can be very effective, even with three default powers (guide, prescience, and psychic shriek).

znelson wrote:
Let me start by saying that I love Iyanden, and have had an Iyanden army for a very very long time.

I'll follow up with: You shouldn't expect to win with an Iyanden list. Period. At 35 points a model, they're not even close to a terminator, in terms of survival or damage output..

I woudnt take to much advise from this post. As stated before, he feels that Iyanden are "terrible".... but there not. They cna be very compeittive.
Wraith guard troops with wave serpent transports, wraith knights, the list goes on.
Wraith guard are actually great. T6 fire dragons, or who doesnt like ap2 templates? All in wave serpents, the best transport in the game? Hell ya!
Wraith knights are the cherry on top.
Mantleseer is the sprinkles.

Thank you for answering guys.

The only reason I'm taking the Farseer on a Jetbike is that I've never played him before. I was going to put him on foot in the big wraith blade unit, but thought in would try some jetbikers as well. I've only played Iyanden and have never played a wraithknight before.

I should have mentioned that I mainly play the tourney just to get a chance to play (I don't get up to 40k night very often)

I would like to have a chance to win some games, but don't have to have the hardest list. Mi would love to have two wraithknights, but finding points for a second and building and painting it may be a challenge

znelson wrote:
Let me start by saying that I love Iyanden, and have had an Iyanden army for a very very long time.

I'll follow up with: You shouldn't expect to win with an Iyanden list. Period. At 35 points a model, they're not even close to a terminator, in terms of survival or damage output.

Let me walk you through the problem, so you can start to see the best steps for avoiding it:

1) Wraithguard have a 12" range weapon.
This means that at most you should expect to shoot one time before becoming locked in HtH combat. Anyone who's ever had the pleasure of using their wraithguard in HtH already knows how it ends.

If you're going to use wraithguard, it needs to be a 6 man squad in a wave serpent, and they all need to have D-Scythes. If delivered to the right place and maneuvered properly, you can reasonably hope to cripple your target enough to stand a change in the ensuring HtH.

Except for this 1 unit of wraithguard, only take wraithblades. The wraithblades should have the default weapons IMHO. 1 Attack/Model just isn't enough to get the job done.

I would recommend you take 3 Wraithknights. The reason for this is simple: they advance quickly, and will distract your enemy enough to keep the LCs and MLs off of your Wraithblades. Wraithknights also take care of your anti-armor needs, and can kill models with 2+ in HtH, which, if you're taking my advice, the wraithblades won't be able to do.

If your opponent's weapons don't all ignore cover saves, your 'blades can benefit from having a warlock. Savings 1 in 3 lascannon shots is a lot better than none at 35pts a model.

I still like to play Iyanden, and I still enjoy it very much, I just don't expect to win.

^^ this is all wrong.

At 1850 my iyaden themed army is

Farseer-100
spiritseer-70
Warlock-35

Wg*2-320
Wg with scythes-210
guardians-90

serpents with SL-460
WK-240
Ch*2-320

Its a balanced list and it took 2nd at my second LGS with 3/3 primary and 12/14 secondary.

Any army will be good if it has balance to it, you just need to find it.

znelson wrote:
Let me start by saying that I love Iyanden, and have had an Iyanden army for a very very long time. Well, then I dont know why you think there bad.

I'll follow up with: You shouldn't expect to win with an Iyanden list. Period. At 35 points a model, they're not even close to a terminator, in terms of survival or damage output. Uhhhh terminators are terrible at damage output. Wraith guard are GREAT at it. Also you forget termies are 50 points more expensive per squad.

Let me walk you through the problem, so you can start to see the best steps for avoiding it:

1) Wraithguard have a 12" range weapon. No problem here. Wave serpents make it not only good, but deadly. are you forgetting they have STRENGTH 10 weapons??? And with the wave serpent you are near guranteed to be in range of what you want.
This means that at most you should expect to shoot one time before becoming locked in HtH combat. Anyone who's ever had the pleasure of using their wraithguard in HtH already knows how it ends. Not if your good. Most armies have 1, maybe 2 units that are good (against wraith guard) in combat, and those are easily avoided. Meaning you can shoot your hearts desrire out. Only way they die is from shooting, and if you blow any tank, youve paid your points up anyways.

If you're going to use wraithguard, it needs to be a 6 man squad in a wave serpent, and they all need to have D-Scythes. If delivered to the right place and maneuvered properly, you can reasonably hope to cripple your target enough to stand a change in the ensuring HtH. This is a good combination, but your not giving it enough credit. You forget the rule "wall of death". Look it up. Then apply for S4 ap2 flamers to it. No one wants to charge the wraith guard now. And they dont. Again, only die by shooting, and allot of it.

Except for this 1 unit of wraithguard, only take wraithblades. The wraithblades should have the default weapons IMHO. 1 Attack/Model just isn't enough to get the job done. Wraith blades are the worst type of wraith guard there are. Easily killed by an type of ap 1-3 gun, and to make matters worst they either a) have to walk up the field, or b) are in a wave serpent, but have to wait one turn after unloading to assualt, making them sitting ducks.

I would recommend you take 3 Wraithknights. The reason for this is simple: they advance quickly, and will distract your enemy enough to keep the LCs and MLs off of your Wraithblades. Wraithknights also take care of your anti-armor needs, and can kill models with 2+ in HtH, which, if you're taking my advice, the wraithblades won't be able to do. Good. I think your much to foccused on cc though. not every unit goes into cc. In fact most of the time its only units i want in combat (Wriathknight)

If your opponent's weapons don't all ignore cover saves, your 'blades can benefit from having a warlock. Savings 1 in 3 lascannon shots is a lot better than none at 35pts a model. Only problem is how easily he perils.

I still like to play Iyanden, and I still enjoy it very much, I just don't expect to win.They are actually a quite compeittive army to play.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

buckero0 wrote:
I'm trying to come up with some Iyanden goodness for a tourney I want to play in in a month or so.

I have way more wraithguard , but sine adding the farseer, I've had difficulty fitting them all in. I also find that units of 5 WG die pretty easily.

I would love to fit another wave serpent in, but can't quite make it fit

What so you think?
Farseer, Jetbike spear
Spiritseer. Wraith stone
Spirit seer stone of Alantih
7 wraithguard
6 wraithguard Dscythes
Waveserpant scatterlaser and cannon
6 jetbikers, two cannons
9 wraith blades with axes
Fire prism with Holofields
Night spinner with Holofields
Wraithknight with two cannons

As for your list, woudnt recommend a fire prism. Sub-par IMO. You have the large blast with the night spinner, ap2 templates with the wraith guard, and the one s9 shot is ok. I would drop that, and the wraith blades and you should have enough for another wraith guard squad and a wave serpent. Then Drop all remaining wraith guard squads down to 5 man, so you have enough point to but the 7 man (now 5 man) wraith guard squad a transport.
So the list would look like this.

Farseer, Jetbike spear
Spiritseer. Wraith stone
Spirit seer stone of Alantih
5 wraith gurad, wave serpent scatter lasers, shuiken cannon
5 wraith gurad, wave serpent scatter lasers, shuiken cannon
5 wraith guard d scythes wave serpent scatters, shuiken
6 jet bikes, 2 cannons
night spinner, holos
Wraith knight.

Theres a nasty list.

znelson has given out some pretty terrible information. The other posters here however, have summed it up pretty well.

The army lists that Arbiter and ninjafiredragon have provided are both very strong builds.

Wraithblades are awful, you would want either a 10 man flamer squad buffed up the ying yang on foot or multiple 5-6 man units in serpents(flamers or the good ol S10 AP2 ID6 Wraithcannon goodness). Mantle seer on jetbike or Eldrad on foot with the 10 man unit. At least 2 SS at 1850 IMO.

^^ agreed that the only WB unit that is somewhat good is 10 axe/shield with eldrad, and spiritseer hoping for 2+ armour 4+ inv with fortune.