Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
- They range between stooped ratlike creatures to hulking beasts
- They have advanced warp weaponry
- naturally produce strong neuro-toxins
- exude a mist of poison gas that obscures them from enemies
- They're focused around ancestry and family ties, meaning they're most likely organized into clans lead by their elders
- They take other species as pets
- dwell in the dark
- Their presence creates decay
- Some can step through the Warp
Some of my suggestions based on the fluff.
Spoiler:
USRs night fighter
deepstrike
stealth
obscuring mist 5+ cover save
5+ poison in close combat
Troops: Hrud warrior clansmen
WS3 BS3 T4 S3 I4 A1 W1 SV6+
armed with lasgun type weapons with access to have a clan leader with access to power weapons
can be upgraded with 4+ saves
Hrud Scavengers
WS3 BS4 T3 S3 I5 A2 W1
infiltrate
Scout
pathfinders
Hrud Scavengers are at the bottom of the clan order with no family ties or respected ancestry however every clan leader keeps a large retinue to supply him and in fact scavengers lay the basis for the wealth clan-lord, in times of war they are sent to lead the troops to an advantageous position to launch the attack, a Squad may appoint a second unit to give the infiltrate rule however the unit must deploy 6" behind the untouchables.
Rending?
Elites: Hrud ancients
WS4 BS4 T7 S6 I4 A3 W3 SV 4+
terminator size bases
may take locator beacons
an upgrade for a 2+ save?
Hrud second sons
Those among the Hrud with noble heritage yet no claim to a clan and household of their own seek may choose to show themselves as leaders on the battlefield and so gain a following
WS4 BS4 T5 S4 I4 A2 W1 SV 4+
have access to Hrud Fusils, S6 Melta ap2 R18
have access to power weapons
May take a lorekeeper initiate as an upgrade (lvl 1 psycher)
Weepers
There is little place for the widows among the Hrud as a concubine's re-marriage is seen as an insult to the dead the polygamous nature of the Hrud means that as many fifty may become widows with the stroke of a foemen's blade. Some fall back into the untouchables scavenging to stay alive, others band together to form "weepers" who seek death in the arms of the enemy to join their lost spouse.
stats no fething idea…
feel no pain
rending
fleet
harrowing wail
furious charge
enemies they assault must take a leadership test.
lorekeepers.. psychers and special weapons
HQ: Hrud council of elders:
4 Elders plus advisors... second sons, lore keepers, may also take pets from different species which give the preferred enemy special rule against that race (why do you think they keep them? kindness?)
Fast attack WS2 BS2 T2 S2 I3 A4 W3 (beasts)
berserk charge
deep strike same rules as tervigons
Untouchables have no clan and are forced to perform all grueling manual labor like carving out the tunnels and cities that the Hrud call home, when the Hrud go to war it is often the untouchables that lead the first charge, exploding from the earth in a shower of earth and crazed flesh, hungering for the living flesh they smell so near, their masters following from out of the newly created tunnel
based on terminator size bases each with three or four models on them to save having to buy and move a gak ton of models around the board, or you could go with the traditional hormagaunt style swarm of 10-30
Rag-lord although the untouchables have no clan structure and are repressed to the point that organization is nigh impossible leaders known as rag-lords often appear sometimes from the sons or retinues of minor nobility sometimes even from the masses of the untouchables themselves and try to form those he can into new lands to form a clan of his own, few succeed however.
With a rag-lord HQ untouchables become a troop choice, an army that has a rag-lord HQ cannot take a Hrud council as they would never deign to grace such a rabble rouser with their presence.
Another suggestion from the other thread Icculus
Spoiler:
I still have some more work to do on this, but here is what I have so far. Check out the MechaCrane for a neat new mechanic
HQ Pit Boss
BS-3;WS-4;S-3;T-6;I-5;A-1;W-4;LD-10;SV 3+
Wargear:
Earthspeaker
BS-3;WS-3;S-3;T-5;I-5;A-2;W-2;LD-9;SV 4+
Psyker level 1, force weapon, automatically knows Earthquake. May be upgraded to psyker level 2 or 3 to roll on Divination, Biomancy, or Telepathy.
Earthquake: witchfire 36” range. Large blast, ordnance 1, barrage, str 9, ap2
Elite
Tech-rat
BS-3;WS-3;S-3;T-5;I-5;A-2;W-2;LD-9;SV 3+
Repair: on a 4+ may repair either a weapon destroyed or immobilized result.
Wargear: Welding kit (Melta pistol, Power Maul)
Troops: Ratori. Units of 5-15. 12 pts per model.
BS-3;WS-3;S-3;T-5;I-5;A-1;W-1;LD-8;SV 5+
Special Rules: Move through cover, Disease Aura
Wargear: Shunt-gun; mining armor, defensive grenades
Any rat may swap shunt-gun for pistol and hand-drill (2 cc weapons, hand-drill is ap5)
For every 5 rats in the unit, one may swap his shunt-gun for a special weapon
If the squad is 10 or more, one rat may swap his shunt-gun for a heavy weapon
May take a Breaching Drill as a dedicated transport
Shunt-gun: 18”, assault 1, str 4, ap 4, pinning
Disease Aura: The enemy unit suffers 1d3 str 4 ap- hits for every 5 rats in the unit on the first round of combat. These hits take place at initiative step 10. This rule has no effect after the first round.
Transport/Heavy: Breaching Drill. 75 pts
BS-3;F-13;S-11,R-10;HP-3
Transport capacity – 16 models
Tank
Wargear: Drill, Hull mounted Mining Laser
Fire points: One model may fire from top hatch
Access Points: 1 on each side and 1 on rear
Special Rules: Deepstrike, Tunnel
Drill: roll 2d6 for dangerous terrain, only fails on 1,1. If a tank shock or a ram is performed, the unit being hit automatically suffers d6 str10 ap- hits. If the unit elects to perform a death or glory attach, they suffer an additional d6 str10 ap- hits.
Mining Laser: See Multi-Melta
May swap Mining Laser for a twin-linked Shunt-Cannon (24” Heavy 4, str6 ap4, pinning) = free
May take one additional weapon from the following:
Mining Laser = 15 pts
TL Shunt-Cannon = 20 pts
Corrosive Jet (torrent, Str5, ap4) = 15 pts
Elite: Toxin Squad: 3 models. May upgrade to 15
BS-3;WS-3;S-3;T-5;I-5;A-1;W-1;LD-8;SV 5+
Special Rules: Move through cover, Disease Aura
Wargear: Microbe Propellant. (Template, str -, ap 3, poisoned 3+)
Fast Attack: Ragres
BS-0;WS-5;S-4;T-5;I-5;A-2;W-2;LD-7;SV 5+
Unit type: Beasts
Special Rules: Diseas Aura, Fleet, Wild Animals
Wargear: Claws and Teeth
Heavy: MechaCrane
BS-3;F-14,S-13,R-10
Heavy Tank,
Wargear: Seismic Cannon, Digging Claws, Shunt-Cannon sponsons
Transport capacity: none
Seismic Cannon: 48” str 9 ap2 Ordnance 2. Alternatively, this cannon may be fired at area terrain within 48” and in LOS. If hit, the terrain is treated as dangerous terrain as it is slowly leveled and flattened out. Each model inside must immedietly take a dangerous terrain check at -1. At the beginning of the following turn’s shooting phase roll a d6. on a 3+ the terrain piece is removed from play and each model inside the area terrain suffers a str 8 ap- hit.
Digging Claws: These claws may be used to fortify the crane in place. The crane may spend 1 full shooting phase digging in to position. During this phase no weapons may be fired. On every turn in which the Crane remains dug in, its BS is increased +1 and it receives a 5+ cover save.
The question is how do you interpret the Fluff
I don't like having infiltration for everybody as that takes away the hard choices as a commander, if you're forced to buy troops to make you're heavy hitters infiltrating it makes the troops relevant instead of just another force org slot to fill while still allowing for a "terror from the shadows" themed list.
Personally I like the idea of proud warlike Hrud being lead from their subterranean metropolis into position buy cowering scavengers, ready to show the imperium the sons of the ancient ones true form and with it the meaning of fear.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The whole aging Aura is a little bit hard to do, I was thinking of making it mainly a special weapon or psyched buff, but the idea of treating it a little like a hammer of wrath attack is I think a good idea.
I was thinking as a fast attack choice that kind of fit the "terror in the dark" theme
Fast attack: Hrud Snatchers
WS 4, BS 4, S 4, T 5 I 5, A 2, W 2
Stealth
Shrouded
Infiltrate
Shadow walker
Rending
3+ cover
Hrud are children of the warp however few have such an intuitive understanding as the Snatchers, stepping through the warp to reappear somewhere else.
The Snatchers may instead of moving in the move phase deepstrike.
Watchers! Watchers in the dark!
Before deployment the Snatchers may secretly appoint a unit to "shadow", they may then infiltrate up to 3" directly behind that unit.
Few in number Hrud snatcher clans enjoy a special place in Hrud society, although they live on the outskirts of Hrud society they are more respected than shunned, although the scavengers relay valuable information to their masters it's snatchers who build the backbone of Hrud reconnaissance, moving unseen in the shadows, finding their opponents every weakness, abducting those who have seen or suspect too much as well as those who possess valuable information whisked away to the deeps to face interrogation, it is for these reasons why the Hrud council values these clans so highly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/06 10:28:06
I think the biggest issue with creating a new race at the moment is how can they be different enough compared to all the other factions.
A lot of things I have noticed are people saying lets give them an elder statline +1T -1I and give them X number of rules and then Yay new race.
That simply is not enough.. A lot of thought was made when they finally introduced the Tau and Necrons to create a unique game style. Even the sisters were given uniqueness through their Acts of Faith and Shield.
By all means, attempt to create the Hrud but try to think how can they play differently compared to everyone else?
Sister Sydney definitely came up with the interesting concept of all infiltrate. The question is how to balance that. Maybe enemy can Seize on a 4+ or infiltrators shoot at half range.
{I have thought of a characterful USR for the Hrud but we see how this goes}
Also, one mistake I made was to give too many varying statlines. Icculus had the right idea. Unless factions are made of multiple races, statlines should be very similar to each other. eg Orks have around 3 different main statlines (Boyz Nobz and Grots) + Characters, IG has multiple due to Ogryns and Ratlings.
Now on criticising your stuff..
They get 5+ cover and stealth so does that mean 4+ cover then?
Do your Hrud have any particular drawbacks? They have good toughness, good access to armour (Fluff wise a 4+ to a 2+ is comparable to a car and a tank), good weaponry and can easily take down monstrous creatures. Hruds in the fluff are afaik inferior to Orks.
The Fast Attack after Hrud Council
Is that meant to be Trygon instead of Tervigon?
That is all I could find.
The question is how do you interpret the Fluff
I don't like having infiltration for everybody as that takes away the hard choices as a commander, if you're forced to buy troops to make you're heavy hitters infiltrating it makes the troops relevant instead of just another force org slot to fill while still allowing for a "terror from the shadows" themed list.
Personally I like the idea of proud warlike Hrud being lead from their subterranean metropolis into position buy cowering scavengers, ready to show the imperium the sons of the ancient ones true form and with it the meaning of fear.
The fluff is what it is.. By using your own idea you are pretty much making a new race.
No problem, some rain is exactly the thing for a parade, makes people creative with build umbrellas into the floats
I think the biggest issue with creating a new race at the moment is how can they be different enough compared to all the other factions.
The way I see them is having all-round access to deepstrike and infiltrate shenanigans. They should be weak in prolonged engagement without access to lots of monstrous creatures and no vehicles, the vehicles part is probably where I differ from Icculus most. Tyranids don't have vehicles, but can rely on monstrous creatures to soak up fire, Hrud need to make sure they can get into combat and stay in combat.
The Space Marines and Tyranids have access to infiltrating and deep striking units but to a much smaller extent and with the option to take monstrous creatures and vehicles.
Sister Sydney definitely came up with the interesting concept of all infiltrate. The question is how to balance that. Maybe enemy can Seize on a 4+ or infiltrators shoot at half range.
Yes I agree, but making them all able to infiltrate is a bit of a one trick pony, in my view multiple builds should be possible, if you give Scavengers the ability to infiltrate a unit you allow the option of infiltrating, you solve the problem of getting your hordes into range and balance the ability to infiltrate as limits you tactically somewhat. Same goes for untouchables acting like Trygons (and thanks for the catch), it allows you to have a terror from the deep list while making a choice with pros and cons.
{I have thought of a characterful USR for the Hrud but we see how this goes}
Love to hear it.
Also, one mistake I made was to give too many varying statlines. Icculus had the right idea. Unless factions are made of multiple races, statlines should be very similar to each other. eg Orks have around 3 different main statlines (Boyz Nobz and Grots) + Characters, IG has multiple due to Ogryns and Ratlings.
I'm open to the idea of a more standard stat line, but I was trying to show a strict hierarchal tendency in the Hrud, where the oldest get the most food and therefor grow. As I said I'm fine with the idea of changing it, but I thought it differentiated them a bit form other races.
They get 5+ cover and stealth so does that mean 4+ cover then?
No, the 5+ cover is if they don't have any other cover and cannot be modified (except maybe by special gear), it's to make up for the fact that they don't have an armor save.
Do your Hrud have any particular drawbacks? They have good toughness, good access to armour (Fluff wise a 4+ to a 2+ is comparable to a car and a tank), good weaponry and can easily take down monstrous creatures. Hruds in the fluff are afaik inferior to Orks.
Only one unit (might) have access to 2+ and only elite options have access to 4+ saves, the rest have 6+ or no saves. Only the second sons have access to Hrud Fusils, which is so far their only access to AV.
What i think is that they're too tough. Only the toughest should be t4. And t5 is reserved to a warboss/plague marines level of toughness. Better make them squisher but cheaper. Like they should be.
I think you should dance around guardsmen statline for your average guyz. With grot's statline for the squishiest.
And note, they're guardsmen with stealth, deepstrike, obscured, poison - but without possibility for orders and good gear. 6 pts is a steal for that. 7 might be too much for their squishness in this edition with all the difficulties to deepstrike. They'll feel just fine, i guess. And the untouchable are gona be grots with poisoned 5+ and +1 ini but without runtherd to compensate for ld.
Maybe u're gona have other mechanics for ld bumps. For example, Hrud might be lead by a higher ranked warrior with ld8 while untouchable might be lead by hrud. Sorry, i'm not quite sure if it's fluffy or not. So the idea of sergeants might be misplaced. But you might alwayz find another solution to compensate for their obvious ld problems.
I think that warriors of mid-high rank must be able to take krak nades for +1 pt per model. So that if you have a squad of 30, 10-15 may take nades and it's gona be a steal also. I wish my orkses could do the same thing, honestly. Probably should limit the ammount of nades. Like 3 per every 10.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/05/12 11:47:45
Hrud second sons
Those among the Hrud with noble heritage yet no claim to a clan and household of their own seek may choose to show themselves as leaders on the battlefield and so gain a following
WS4 BS4 T5 S4 I4 A2 W1 SV 4+
I can see what you mean by different hierarchy's but look at the stats again..
You will literally need cards next to the unit to keep track of their profile.
One unit would be fighting at WS3 I5 A2, another unit will be WS4 I4 A3 etc whilst being the same species.
Now you mentioned you wanted them not to have (many) monstrous creatures nor vehicles.
Is the idea for a horde army or an elite (via specials) low count and sub par stats army?
Are they similar to Space Skavens? I know people try to avoid this question but do you see your interpretation as Skavens? Personally I see Hrud as ratmen but this is your version.
A suggestion for a horde army could be similar to the kroot and krootox as a standard Unit format (or ork boyz with multiple nobz) [10-30 models per troop squad]
An elite low count will be more in line with playing along with their warp tech (think militarum tempestus scions) [5-10 models]
Here is my idea of how I see the Hrud
Spoiler:
WS2 BS2 S3 T3 W1 I4 A1 Ld7 Sv6+ Pts4
Models: 10-30
Weapons: Claws and clubs
Specials: Stealth, Infiltrate, Night Fight, Poison 5+ (melee)
Upgrades: For every 5 models, one can be upgraded with Fusil +10pts (Same stat as yours but also gives +1 Ld up to Ld10)
They aren't warriors (hence the low WS and BS) they simply swarm their opponents and let the decay take over.
The fusil gives them a sense of confidence.
I think this way creates a few unique elements as well.
Not outright ripping off, but inspiration and taking some general themes.
Skaven rely on sheer mass and have some rely devastating if rather unreliable high end weapons. Generally speaking, in melee they should not be able to beat most things one on one, but make up for that by being able to have three clanrats for every Imperial Swordsman and being good enough at melee.
So semi-competent at assault (not Ork or Tyranid level good, but not Tau or Guard level bad per model if we're comparing to hordable armies) and weapons that can backfire rather unpleasantly or do something really awesome. So lots of gets hot or SAG style madness.
Another big thing of course, is being so apathetic to their own casualties that they can shoot into assault (at the risk of hitting your own troops).
But as I said, only take broad strokes. Converting things 1 to 1 from Fantasy to 40k and back again is a bad idea.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
Just note that ig assault has become really good with addition of priests and inquisitors. I'd say better than ork's assault. They're capable of killing everything short of 2+ rerollable. That's totally wrong fluffwise though. But tabletop, ig is better in assault than orkses now. They just don't have proper assault transports - battlewagonz bring orkses on top of that comparison. But if you compare footslogas - ig is gona be alwayz better in assault. Hope that new ork codex and new 7 ed fixes that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/13 05:11:18
Anything can be nasty with a bucket of hatred rerolled attacks.
Sluggaboyz with hatred would beat guardsmen with hatred.
And there's still nothing in the guard book that wins assault against a full mob of nob bikers kitted for maximum hurt in assault.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
I don't really see them as space skaven 1 to 1, they don't strike me as a spiteful plague unto the universe in the same way, they seem to be much older and wiser with their own culture and traditions slowly drifting through time, cursed through their involvement with the old ones to turn all they see to dust and ash.
Just for context this is how I see Hrud in my head, at least the really old and powerful ones.
The untouchables and scavengers might be huddled in dirty cloaks to disguise them, but the high level ones I see as clad in robes and cloaks that seem to have once been vibrant and beautiful but have turned ancient and faded through the entropic field
No offence but it seems like an impossible task..
The problem is your version is different from some views (myself and others in this thread) of the Hrud (3rd edition Space Skavens)
Without the same vision it is hard for everyone to work together.
Can you explain where you get your envisioning of the Hrud from in terms of garment?
The image you use shows it with no cloths and weapons (from Xenology Biologis or some novel name similar to that) so makes it hard to see them wearing robes.
The lexicanum has no mentions about them being lavish. Do not confuse ancient with aristocratic.
You also previously mentioned they have a strict hierarchy and age/experience makes them bigger. Where is that based from?
I said it before and I will say it again.. (esp if you cannot clarify where you get your interpretations from)
Make a new race instead.
You have an idea here already for a play style.
- Weak expendable grunts and powerful elites, leaders/HQs (Similar to Orks and Tyranids)
- Minimal Monstrous Creatures and vehicles. (Not similar to Tyranids and Orks)
Work around that, provide some fluff and explain why they may be a threat to the IoM and then we can work together more on this.
