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Well unbound FoC means death stars are going away. Any army can spam anything. Screamerstar, meet 2000 pts of obliterators. Assault cannons, go. Seercouncil got you down? How's 16 blastermasters sound? Like 16 str 8 Ap 3 ignore cover blast. That's what.

Entire armies can be 2 titans. Or nothing but gargoyles. How would seerstar win against as many SMU units of termigaunts as I can field for same points. You'd never kill enough to matter, you'd lose every objective. And with more objectives....

Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

So the answer to imbalance is to just make the game more insanely imbalanced?

There's some outstanding logic.

What unbound means is that you can now stuff three seerstars into a 2.5k point game and have room for other nonsense.

And blast masters bounce right off of protected jetseers.

1850 point lists made up of 3 650 point Death Stars? I'm not sure this kills the stars as much as let you take multiples...

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

Never played seerstar vs a horde huh? It's simple. You put so many gants by the objectives that they can't be contested.

 jifel wrote:

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

Never played seerstar vs a horde huh? It's simple. You put so many gants by the objectives that they can't be contested.

Unless, of course, they run off the table because there's no synapse around.

But that never happens, right?

You can further improve your seerstars by stuffing more farseers in each one to all but garauntee fortune.

If only this would also break up guard platoons you could finally run 500 conscripts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually... I have come up with the perfect counter to the all drop pod army....

At max spread, it only takes 16 guys to fill a square foot of table. Going first on the long deployment zones, scout forward 6", move 6", then run 6" (using the roll 3 dice order). Then have a way to infiltrate d3 blobs. You only need to cover 9 square feet with the infiltrators which 3 blobs can do (any terrain will help cut down this area). Declare victory as your opponent fails to deploy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually... I have come up with the perfect counter to the all drop pod army....

At max spread, it only takes 16 guys to fill a square foot of table. Going first on the long deployment zones, scout forward 6", move 6", then run 6" (using the roll 3 dice order). Then have a way to infiltrate d3 blobs. You only need to cover 9 square feet with the infiltrators which 3 blobs can do (any terrain will help cut down this area). Declare victory as your opponent fails to deploy.

Uh, drop pods can drop anywhere can they not? You could drop them in your own zone. I'd have to see it in person.

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

My army is solely 2 revenant titans, with 3 min jet bike squads.

How you going to deal with that

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

My army is solely 2 revenant titans, with 3 min jet bike squads.

How you going to deal with that

Don't bother going for Fortune, blow everything on Telepathy and get multiple Puppet Masters, fire your Titans at each other until they kill each other? Alternatively you can just go second and lose I guess....

Seriously though Unbound isn't going to matter because a) its not going to get used in any kind of competitive setting if its as unbalanced as the current rumours/speculating think it will be and b) the CONFIRMED changes to psychic powers that we know about already invalidate most of the worst Deathstar builds. Even if there are no changes to the psychic powers in the rulebook (rumours suggested that you might be able to use more dice to cast but increase the risk of perils, which suggests a system much closer to Fantasy where you need to meet a certain casting value) the fact that they have already said that there is now a proper dispel system which works on Blessings means the worst Deathstars are already going to be in trouble. Assuming you still randomly generate powers (a pretty safe bet imo) you maybe get 1-2 instances of that key power you really need to make the unit tick, but your opponent can now just save his dispel/deny dice and block Fortune/Forewarning/Gate/Invisibility. Your JetCouncil might have buffs to WS, S and I with re-rolls to Hit and Wound + Hit and Run and a bunch of other special rules, but no one cares if they are just 50pt guys with 3+ saves with no shooting because they Blocked Fortune and Protect.

Powerguy wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

My army is solely 2 revenant titans, with 3 min jet bike squads.

How you going to deal with that

Don't bother going for Fortune, blow everything on Telepathy and get multiple Puppet Masters, fire your Titans at each other until they kill each other? Alternatively you can just go second and lose I guess.....

Nice

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

My army is solely 2 revenant titans, with 3 min jet bike squads.

How you going to deal with that

I probably won't. That's what concerns me about this new "game." It's become an arms race--whoever can afford to buy, paint, and bring the most giant, scary models will now win. Which makes sense economically, but doesn't make the game fun.

Trying to keep this discussion on a tactical level, I just don't know why one wouldn't do this. I mean, the "army of Obliterators" sounds pretty frigging scary to me, and with the Titans, again, how will I kill them unless I tool my entire list to do so? I think that this is a way to force your opponent to completely change his list in order to deal with your monoculture one. I'm not saying it's fun, but I think it's a new tactic.

I also really liked the highlighting of the fact that there are more ways to gain victory points than simply holding objectives, and that will definitely come into play here.

i still dont believe this unbound nonsense. Thats way too huge of a balance mockup to believe. Even if it is true, i doubt anyone at my FLGS will ever play it that way and stick to FOC rules.

My tau wouldnt really care as points are more an issue than slots available, but my orks would have a freakin field day lol.

I'll just take 185 ratlings and crush all comers.

You can't stop the Shire bitches

Army of Obliterators.

Meet army of Seekers.

Coteaz and 135 henchmen with plasma guns split into 45 squads. The game just gets silly without any foc. Lets wait and see if it pans out.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Coteaz and 135 henchmen with plasma guns split into 45 squads. The game just gets silly without any foc. Lets wait and see if it pans out.

How about, generic inquisitor with no upgrades and (points - 25) / 4 henchmen, in squads of 3. Well over 100 scoring units at 1500 points. That would certainly make any death star player sad.

Mavnas wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Coteaz and 135 henchmen with plasma guns split into 45 squads. The game just gets silly without any foc. Lets wait and see if it pans out.

How about, generic inquisitor with no upgrades and (points - 25) / 4 henchmen, in squads of 3. Well over 100 scoring units at 1500 points. That would certainly make any death star player sad.

Or just buy 295 bolter henchies split into 97 squads of 3 and a single large squad of 4. Throwing out 295 to 590 bolter shots per turn means they can do something besides msu.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All troops because inq primary. Once again let's take no foc and % with a grain of salt.

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

My army is solely 2 revenant titans, with 3 min jet bike squads.

How you going to deal with that

I probably won't. That's what concerns me about this new "game." It's become an arms race--whoever can afford to buy, paint, and bring the most giant, scary models will now win. Which makes sense economically, but doesn't make the game fun.

Trying to keep this discussion on a tactical level, I just don't know why one wouldn't do this. I mean, the "army of Obliterators" sounds pretty frigging scary to me, and with the Titans, again, how will I kill them unless I tool my entire list to do so? I think that this is a way to force your opponent to completely change his list in order to deal with your monoculture one. I'm not saying it's fun, but I think it's a new tactic.

I also really liked the highlighting of the fact that there are more ways to gain victory points than simply holding objectives, and that will definitely come into play here.

Let people pay for all the most expensive ridiculous units, that doesn't mean you have to play those people.

I always ask to see a list before I agree to pick up games because they are supposed to be fun games, I don't even play strangers with the screamer star.

In a tournament environment you are more than welcome to bring whatever cheese you want to counter your opponents.

Unbound armies simply allow for far more fun fluffy lists that can also actually be effective.

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

How does a seer council "split up"?

Independent characters disjoin the unit and race off to contest 4 different objectives.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Thud wrote:
Seer council buffs up, secures first blood, hunts your warlord, gets linebreaker and then finally, splits up and contests all the objectives.

Enjoy moving all your dudes around, it won't matter anyway.

My army is solely 2 revenant titans, with 3 min jet bike squads.

How you going to deal with that

I don't. I pretty much auto-lose. Yay fun! 40k!

That's what I was trying to get across to OP, though. With super silly lists like this, you crush everyone until you run into your hard counter. Then you get crushed. And no one had any fun along the way.

My whole point is that the new FOC means every army potentially has hard counters and ways around the death Star build. Its not going to be all Taudar when anyone can counter them.

Also, the 3 seer council idea fails to address what the actual counter is, mobs you can't wipe enough of.

Finally, line breaker and warlord etc will be some of many more objectives, and msu units get more obj that star armies giving a random number of unknowable objectives.

Please confine speculation and WAAGs related to 7th ed to the 7th ed rumors thread; until the rules actually exist, we're trying to keep the noise level down.