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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




So we have learned that there will be some new mode of fielding armies in an Unbound way that allows for people to populate lists with such spammy monstrosities as 10 riptides in a 2000 point list.

Lots of people on this forum are panicking over the Pandora Box that is being opened by the prospect of Unbound play. What we don't know is the plan GW has to balance out the inclusion of Unbound play into the more familiar "Battle Forged" play. I think its entirely do-able to balance out Unbound and Batte Forged play.

My question to the community is how would YOU balance that? Imagine you are a game designer and you are tasked with supporting Unbound play versus the Battle Forged mode that follows the FOC. Presumably there should be pros and cons for choosing either mode and not just a patently obvious way to proceed. Ideally, of course you make rule changes that make either mode a strategically viable mode. So, important here is to provide enough gusto to the Battle Forged mode that it can contain the abusive silliness that the Unbound mode could muster.

As a starter, I would suggest that if I as a Battle Forged player had twice as many points as an Unbound player I could handle the Unbound player -- easily. This is definitely overkill. With twice as many points the Battle Forged player would have more points than he needs to keep the Unbound player in check. I think we could do better than just give the Battle Forged player twice as many points to play with. As that is, there would be little incentive to play Unbound. But this is an important starting place to make note of. It means that potentially Unbound is containabled and that Unbound and Battle Forged play are completely balanceable in theory with one another.

So what say you? Rather than panic, how would you incorporate an Unforged mode successfully into the more familiar Battle Forged mode?

50% more points? 25% more points? A sideboard mechanic? Where do you think the balancing point is? What mechanic would you implement to balance out the two modes?

   
Made in nz
Disguised Speculo





Battle Forged lists achieve the true objective, forging a narrative, and so automatically win the game if they have any models alive at the end of the last turn.

The problem is that your assuming people will use unbound to wreck the game. And sure, some will, but what about that guy who legitimately makes an army of maulerfiends and forgefiends. Does he deserve to face an army 50% bigger than his?
   
Made in us
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot




Magnolia, TX

My initial thoughts on balancing an unbound list vs. a battle-forged list.

This also seems to check all the boxes as far as nerfing deathstars without telling anyone what they CANNOT bring to a game.

Tweaks to the Tyranids/MC side might be in order since that codex seems to be generally thought of as under-powered.




Battle-forged - you obey all FOC rules and stick to one Codex.

If you bring a battle-forged list and play against an unbound list you immediately receive the following VP bonuses.

You receive Victory Points determined by what your OPPONENT brings.

For every Codex/Dataslate/Formation after the first one that your opponent brings, you receive two VPs.

For every duplicate of a unit your opponent brings (other than troops and their transports) you receive one VP.

For every superheavy your opponent brings you receive five VPs.

For every flyer (including FMC) after the first one your opponent brings, you receive two VPs.

For every MC your opponent brings after the first one, you receive two VPs.

For every D strength weapon your opponent brings, you receive three VPs.

For every 2++ rerollable your opponent rolls during the game you immediately receive seven VPs.

Victory Point conditions stack and are cumulative. Ergo, the second FMC in your opponent's list will yield you five VPs (+2 flyer, +2 MC, +1 duplicate unit).

In all instances in which a dispute arises the maximum number of VPs must be conveyed to the battle-forged list player.

VPs win games. Tabling your opponent just ends the game prematurely. VPs are then tallied.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/07 00:28:30


Captain Killhammer McFighterson stared down at the surface of Earth from his high vantage point on the bridge of Starship Facemelter. Something ominous was looming on the surface. He could see a great shadow looming just underneath the waters of the Gulf of Mexico, slowly spreading northward. "That can't be good..." he muttered to himself while rubbing the super manly stubble on his chin with one hand. "But... on the other hand..." he looked at his shiny new bionic murder-arm. "This could be the perfect chance for that promotion." A perfect roundhouse kick slammed the ship's throttle into full gear. Soon orange jets of superheated plasma were visible from the space-windshield as Facemelter reentered the atmosphere at breakneck speed. 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





Super premature thread.
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






It's silly to have a proposed rules thread, for rules that aren't out or even validated as being true yet.

4500
 
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch






col_impact wrote:
My question to the community is how would YOU balance that?


My make believe solution would be to appropriately price units so that any points combination would be roughly equal in strength, but that would require rewriting every codex. It should be possible if every codex used the same pricing scheme for models and was balanced internally. If a certain composition is assumed, then army list points escalating as more of the same unit are purchased might address that by scaling the army appropriately such as more than two of units X, Y, and Z means they all cost an additional Q points per model.

It wouldn't ever be perfect, but it would be closer.

   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre




I think that this will depend highly on how the Allies matrix (and in particular Battle Brothers) shakes out. I think being able to field ICs from more than one army in the same unit is probably on its way out, which will chop out some of the potential abusiveness of Unbound. The need for scoring will also hamper Unbound to a degree as well.

I suspect what we'll see is Battle Forged lists being able to make better use of the synergistic abilities within their own codex plus perhaps having additional unique synergies.

Tau and Space Wolves since 5th Edition. 
   
Made in ca
Blood Angel Chapter Master with Wings






Sunny SoCal

The rules aren't out yet. Your mission: wait until they are lol -

locking

   
 
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