Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So i keep writing list after list to try and nail my dark eldar for competitive play, yes they will never be top table but i would like a list that can compete.
another condition is i want a close combat oriented list so have tried to come up with something accordingly;

Dark eldar 1850

Archon, huskblade, shadowfield, phantasm grenade launcher
Court of the archon - 1 lhamaean, 3 Sslyth

Haemonculus, crucible of malediction, liquifier gun
Haemonculus, Mindphase gauntlet

4 grotesques, liquifier gun, abberration - scissorhand
Raider - enhanced aethersails, flickerfield, nightshields
4 grotesques, liquifier gun, abberration - scissorhand
Raider - enhanced aethersails, flickerfield, nightshields

5 wyches, haywire grenades
Venom - extra splintercannon, nightshields
5 wyches, haywire grenades
Venom - extra splintercannon, nightshields
5 kabalite warriors, blaster
Venom - extra splintercannon, nightshields
5 kabalite warriors, blaster
Venom - extra splintercannon, nightshields

Voidraven bomber, flickerfield
Voidraven bomber, flickerfield

So the archon unit is to deal with wraithknights/riptides and the unit will just walk through them as long as i can get them into combat, the 2 haemonculus will go with each unit of grotesques. Any help on what's good and what you think is not in the list would be helpful, i was also considering maybe the razorwing is worth taking over the voidraven so any advice on which one people have found better would be good, it is mainly there for anti-air/armour. Criticize people critiscize.

I know it sucks, but the court has to contain at least 1 of each types.
I would personally not even take grotesques..well not that many. I would take a few to throw with my archon just to increase the average toughness of his unit. I would take trueborn for the cannons. And I have a soft spot for ravagers. 3 dark lances for 90? Points...can't beat that.

Sorry, but I'm probably going to rip this list apart because your designing for "competitive play"

HQ:
That Archon is really expensive. I'd probably go for venom blade and a shadow field if you really want to take them.
Haemonculi shouldn't be equipped for combat, I'd probably just go for a liquifier gun if you must but if your not taking grotesques (see below) there isn't much point it taking them really

Elites:
Grotesques are just pretty bad. Not for competitive play at all, I would probably say 4 incubi in a venom would be a nice home for your Archon
You'll also definitely want to be taking either blasterborn in a venom or 3 trueborn with 2 splintercannons in a venom in your elites too.

Troops:
5 Wyches in a venom is good, I like
I also like 10 Warriors in a Raider with spinter cannon and racks. Whether you go night shield or not is up to you and your points allowance.
The 5 Warriors in a venom is also just fine.

Heavy:
If you really want some fliers take razorwings bog standard with dark lances, you'll do just fine. Alot cheaper too.
I personally prefer Ravagers with 3 lances but of course your lacking a bit of anti flier, I'd probably go 2:1 Ravager to Razorwing. But that's just my opinion.

Not a pro Dark Eldar player, but I've used them in tournaments in the past and this is how I feel they play best. Just me really

I've done VERY well in 5th and 6th with me DE on the tournament scene. The name of the game for competitive DE is massed venoms.

Units of 3 trueborn with blasters in venoms
5 warriors with blaster in venoms
1 maybe 2 units of haywire wyches in venoms

Beastpack joined by Baron

Ravagerds with triple dark lances

Put nightshields on everything and you have a great list.

PLAYING it well on the other hand is something else all together. Target priority is absolutely KEY as is limiting your exposure to enemy fire.

HQ:
Archon - I think that's fine.
Haemi - the upgrades are simply not worth it. There are two reasons to take a haemi: scoring wracks and instant pain token to pass off to someone else. You don't want these guys in combat as they will get slaughtered. So, if you're keeping them then drop the upgrades and make sure they start next to your wyches. That way your wyches can at least get a FNP save to help their survivability quite a bit.

Court - As Dutch said, you need 1 of each type. This means you have a unit that lacks focus and is generally just not very good for what you have to buy.

Elites:
I've never seen Grotesques be worth their points. If you want close combat hitters then use Incubi. Either 4 in a venom as body guard for the Archon or 9 in a raider for maximum overkill. Saves and weapons are just better. Yes grots have 3 wounds.. but that's only 1 wound more than a similarly costed 5 man unit of Incubi... So if you really want a CC army, go with a couple units of Incubi.

Generally speaking, point for point, blasterborn in venoms are your best bet to take out high toughness or vehicle targets.

Troops:
Wyches - they only have 1 role in 6e - tank hunters. Essentially, they will kill a tank or dreadnought but they will die immediately afterwards. - They just have a very hard time taking out anything else due to their low strength. So, 2 groups with haywire is ok...but just know what you are sending them after. Note that the Venoms are death traps to them. When the Venom explodes, they will take 5 S4 hits which means 3 or 4 will die immediately and likely be pinned. It's just really hard to keep them alive long enough to make a charge.

Warriors - I usually run 10 in a raider with splinter racks. It's rare that I take a splinter cannon because you are normally only getting two extra shots for the 10 points. Also, splinter racks don't work on Cannons so you won't get to reroll misses. Those 10 points are usually better allocated elsewhere.

Heavy:
If you are likely to face a lot of flyers, then keep the bomber. If not, then you might just go with a plain razorwing so you can get some missiles as default. Personally I tend to take 2 ravagers and a talos or 1 ravager and 2 talos. My opponents tend to freak out when 2 talos are mid field and moving up field to their lines. They draw, and shrug off, a LOT of fire which gives my other troops some much needed breathing room. In other words, they prove their worth by keeping the other units alive.

====
I agree, with Gardeth - Night shields on everything that can take them. This will help in the early game, especially if you go second depending on your deployment.

Now, as an alternative, I've had a LOT of luck with Reavers. 9 w/ 3 blasters can take out a tank or most of a 10 man tac squad a turn. Combine that with being scoring in 1/6 of your games, while also being extremely fast denial units makes them highly desirable in my eyes.

Cheers guys, i had totally not realised how the court composition was broken down. :( Which is a real shame as i wanted the unit to be majority T5 that was the plan.
I still want to take the court as the archons role is to take on wraithknights and riptides etc, having a ap2 insta-death sword that wounds on 2's will do this, so im still sticking to the court but will ammend accordingly.
seems everyone agrees on the grotesques, i think i will still keep the one unit for the haemi with the crucible incase the raider carrying them is destroyed i still have a chance of getting into position to use it.
Remember this list in trying to make combat oriented, i don't want to go boring venom spam, and still have a competitive list
so ill probably take one unit of grotesques, and try and squeeze in some blasterborn and get ravagers, the second haemi is probably not needed then so that frees up points i will post an updated list for critic, hopefully with changes that make it better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heres the updated list then

Archon, huskblade, shadowfield, phantasm grenade launcher
court of the archon - 1 lhamaean, 1 medusae, 1 sslyth, 1 ur-ghul
Venom, NS, extra splinter cannon

Haemonculus, crucible of malediction, liquifier gun

4 grotesques, liquifier gun, abberration - venom blade
Raider - enhanced aethersails, night shields, flickerfield

5 wyches, haywire grenades
Venom - NS, extra splinter cannon
5 wyches, haywire grenades
Venom - NS, extra splinter cannon
10 kabalite warriors
Raider - NS, splinter racks
10 kabalite warriors
Raider - NS, splinter racks

Ravager, NS
Ravager, NS
Razorwing jet fighter, flickerfield




Automatically Appended Next Post:
There's also 5 trueborn in the list with 4 blasters in venom

That list is coming up with 1820 points in battlescribe. Can you double check?

Also, drop the 5th trueborn in the venom. It does absolutely nothing for you. 4 is plenty. Whatever can kill 4 (or make them run) can just as easily kill 5.

So, assuming battlescribe is correct and you drop that extra trueborn, that would give you a total of 42 points to put into something.

A unit of 4 wracks to hang out with the haemi (and be scoring) would work. They are still CC oriented and very cheap. I typically use such a unit to hold a back field objective out of line of sight from my opponent while the rest of my stuff goes to steal his. In 9 out of 10 games that unit is completely ignored and I get an uncontested VP... then again, if you use the haemi for that then you'd likely want to drop the whole crucible thing as a waste of points. Tough call.

Screw that, take a hex rifle and be legit with it.
The court really doesn't do much...like I said before, if you want majority toughness you should just stick him in a grot squad. I know the huslblade got changed but can't remember to what but it's all circumstantial. I would just plan on power weapon...take the mace for guard/swarm and sword against astartes.I'm totally for your troop but it's all about objectives. I love trueborn but if you want objectives take more warriors to hold. I love wyches but yeah...haywire grenades. They can still hold up in cc but haywire makes them more utility.
Heavy is tough..if you really want to utilize power from pain you need a chronos...I like your heavy but just go over chronos to be sure....remember monstrous creature rules

If you want to go super cc and keep the coven theme, why not something like this?

HQ:
Urien
Haemonculus (x2)
- liquifier and venom blade each

Troop
10 Wracks (x3)
- 2 liquifiers
Raider (x3)
- Dark lance

Elite
3 Grotesques (x2)
- liquifier, master haem, Aberation with scissorhand
Raider (x2)
- Dark lance

Fast
Beastmasters Pack:
- 5 Beastmasters
- 5 Khymerae
- 8 Razorwing flocks

Heavy
Ravager (x3)
- 3 dark lances, flickerfield, night shields

Total: 1845 points

Urien gives out pain tokens, the ravagers pop open tanks, and everything else gets close to kill. Turbo boost turn 1 to get in the opponent's face and give a 4+ save. Turn 2, assault with up to 6 units. Is it super competitive? No. Is it unexpected? Yes. Can it absolutely wreck face? For sure.

Wrack face you mean?

I just think the whole "competitive" in the title is a bit of false advertising really as it's not really the most competitive it's going to be if your going to keep hold of units like grots

 Deraiderspam wrote:
I just think the whole "competitive" in the title is a bit of false advertising really as it's not really the most competitive it's going to be if your going to keep hold of units like grots

This isn't World of Warcraft; there's no 'one right way' to do things.

Daemonic_soul, Grotesques can work, although they are easier to screw up and a little more difficult to apply correctly.

I think the Archon and his court are a little superfluous to the list, myself. They don't seem like they have a really clearly defined role. Anything they are going to do could be done just as well by a different unit, probably for less. If you could afford it, a beastpack might not be a bad choice, although I don't know how the points breakdown would work.

Still, that might be one of those YMMV things. It definitely looks like it could work. I'd give it a couple shots and see how it shakes out!

The competitive in the title is not because the lost is competitive, its the fact in trying to make it competitive so no false advertising. The archon blade is ap2 insta death, the only ap2 weapon that dark eldar can take, apart from taking incubi, by taking the court gives the lhamaean which makes his huskblade poisoned 2+ meaning he can now kill wraithknights and riptides etc which he normally wouldn't be able to hurt, remember i want this list close combat oriented, and to be my own list. I don't see what everyone's problem is with the grotesques T5 3wounds each is pretty descent, they also have 4 attacks each on the charge and with a haemi will be S6 meaning they can take out light armour, i really don't think there as bad as people are making out.
I think i may try adding a beastpack, i was originally going to take beastpack with eldar primary and dark eldar allies which is very competitive, but i wanted my own list that was pure dark eldar and see what could be done, in trying to keep the uk meta in mind to have an answer to these things at tournaments, i don't want to go venom spam as i don't think it is very competitive anymore, any descent player will blow up half your venoms in the first turn most of the time, and there is more and more ignores cover emerging making those vehicles even weaker.
I am dead set on the court it will make for some cool conversions and i believe does have a role, MC killing this unit will walk through any MC with ease except maybe the swarmlord, no one has said anything about the crucible of malediction this is perfect for the current psyker deathstars, screamer council goodbye grimoire, jetseer see you later all you warlocks, farsight bomb not gonna be able to gate anymore, it is well worth it.
remember people i want constructive criticism not moaning about my list.

Fyi 2+ poison only affects poison weapons.

What you can do though is take the court and add 2 sslyth and 3 haemos and kit all would can out with agonisers and drop them all in a raider.

Expensive unit and only 2+ ap3 but still very nasty. Plus majority toughness I think will be 4 which is at least better than 3.

Sorry i didn't see the bit saying poisoned my bad. I sort of like that idea, im thinking of taking lady malys with court and 3 haemonculus, this would be a great unit against screamer council, take the crucible of malediction a nice little tactic, i also like her redeploy rule could be handy what do we think?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So heres my list now i quite like it;

Lady malys

Court of the archon - 1 lhamaean, 1 medusae, 3 sslyth, 1 ur ghul

Haemonculus, crucible of malediction
Haemonculus, hex rifle
Haemonculus, hex rifle

4 kabalite trueborn, 3 blaster
Venom - extra splinter cannon, night shields
4 kabalite trueborn, 3 blaster
Venom - extra splinter cannon, night shields

5 wyches, haywire grenades
Venom - extra splinter cannon, night shields
5 wyches, haywire grenades
Venom - extra splinter cannon, night shields
10 kabalites warriors
Raider - splinter racks, night shields
10 kabalites warriors
Raider - splinter racks, night shields
5 wracks, liquifier gun

Ravager, night shields
Razor wing jet fighter, flickerfield

comes to 1826 so have a few points to play with, i really like this list so any thoughts would help. So the idea is have lady malys court and 3 haemonculus in raider happen if against screamer council or psychic deathstars, plenty of scoring, anti tank and anti-air, i think the list is quite competitive and can deal with most stuff.

Add shattershard to another haemo and give them liquifier guns. Hexrifles don't benefit from 2+ either as they are sniper weapons.

Also I'd put them in a Raider. You can fire all that lot off from inside it.

Yh they are in a raider forgot to put that in, i do like the idea of the shattershard that can also work good against some deathstars which is great so will take the liquifiers and shattershard in which will take it to 1844 then so list done i think

Trial and error works best, give it a try and let me know how it goes.

I'm thinking of getting a DE army soon and am liking this list. I normally play against a necron player. How would this list do against normal crons with a wraithstar?

If you play crons a lot I'd get another razorwing.

yh will have to playtest, also thinking of swapping the court for 3 grotesques for malys and haemos to join, will be majority T5 then but the court does offer some awesome conversion potential.

Grots are underrated, if you get a charge on someone with furious charge and s7 you will do a lot of damage. It's a lot of pts though and raiders as a delivery method isn't the best because of the low armour value.

Agonisers on the haemos are good and upgrading one grot to a aberration with a scissorhand is really good.

Because of s7 on the charge you will reroll most of the wounds because of poison. So 7 attacks at s7 on the charge. If you take Eldar allies and prescience the unit you will do a lot of hurt on whatever you hit.

I don't want to add in eldar allies in trying to keep it pure dark eldar, i was planning on having a big unit of grotesques, but i just think it wont do well in todays meta, in trying to design the list with that in mind.
I think malys will do great, and with the haemo is great anti-meta, but there is always the problem of 7th ed not far away and the changes that will bring. So the list is only in the drafting stage. I do think grotesques are underrated tho, apart from there speed they are a resilient unit with lots of attacks, they will do some damage.

I honestly like the first list you had going. Grotesques aren't the MOST competitive, but hell, all you're looking for is something to COMPETE. While taking into consideration what others have been saying, I would try to replace those troop choices with wracks. Do 2 10 man squads and watch them tear people up. Might even consider a 10 man kabalite on foot with a DL to hold a back objective. With all those raiders and void ravens (maybe ravagers, I don't know how many flyers you will come up against), you should be fine on taking out armor.

A link that you may want:

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t4935-dark-eldar-unit-guide-plastikente

Essentially, they break down each unit and discuss the pros/cons. If nothing else it's a good read and provides a LOT of useful information.