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Im thinking of picking up some DE scourges for counts as hawks as I like the models. What do you use them for and how do you run them?

6 man, nothing else for me. Deep strike in, blow some blobs and then assault a tank the next turn. (if they survive)

6 man unit, either with an Exarch(bare) or with Sunrifle. Either way, they're always amazing.

I like the 6 man squad with Exarch with Sunrifle. Blinding is just plain fun.

Take one with baharroth and mess up tau.

Pinch hitters.

Send them after infantry and scoring units. Grenade pack and lasblasters shred scoring units like nobodies business.

I don't plan on their Haywire being useful, they rarely get a chance to assault with it. Throwing a single grenade can be useful though.

Favourite tactic is to deep strike, grenade pack, shoot, then battle focus behind some LOS terrain.

Remember their 24' range, and sit at it. They are bolter bait and hate interceptor.

I run two units of 6, usually with an exarch w/ sunrifle.

Precision shots at Ap 3 are good for taking out heavy/special weapons, and blind is great when it works.


Start them on the table, so they can enter ongoing reserves. Guaranteed entry on turn 2.

Belly wrote:
Pinch hitters.

Send them after infantry and scoring units. Grenade pack and lasblasters shred scoring units like nobodies business.

I don't plan on their Haywire being useful, they rarely get a chance to assault with it. Throwing a single grenade can be useful though.

Favourite tactic is to deep strike, grenade pack, shoot, then battle focus behind some LOS terrain.

Remember their 24' range, and sit at it. They are bolter bait and hate interceptor.

I run two units of 6, usually with an exarch w/ sunrifle.

Precision shots at Ap 3 are good for taking out heavy/special weapons, and blind is great when it works.


Start them on the table, so they can enter ongoing reserves. Guaranteed entry on turn 2.

Try running them with baharroth and ballsy. It doesn't work against battlesuits or vehicles with the blacksun filter upgrade, but it wrecks pretty much every low init army to throw his blind around.

I do do that in some of my friendlier games. He can tank some wounds for them with his 2+/4++, and is pretty devasating in assault. Also gives them H&R.

A neat trick is to have him in reserve seperate. Then deep strike into coherency, giving yourself an extra small blast grenade on the way in.

The most devastating use of Hawks is to drop down and remove a vehicle somebody was planning to rely on.

Hit and run is a must given how squishy they are in assault, and Blind is a great way to screw over armies like the Guard, Tau, Nurgle Daemons, or Orks who have bad initiative values. Precision shotting with the sunrifle is also nice if not something that you should count on every time.

Given that they're not likely to survive for too long, I wouldn't put too many points into them. Keep them cheap.

 Kain wrote:
The most devastating use of Hawks is to drop down and remove a vehicle somebody was planning to rely on.

Hit and run is a must given how squishy they are in assault, and Blind is a great way to screw over armies like the Guard, Tau, Nurgle Daemons, or Orks who have bad initiative values. Precision shotting with the sunrifle is also nice if not something that you should count on every time.

Given that they're not likely to survive for too long, I wouldn't put too many points into them. Keep them cheap.

Tau who don't have battlesuits*

 Kain wrote:

Hit and run is a must given how squishy they are in assault, and Blind is a great way to screw over armies like the Guard, Tau, Nurgle Daemons, or Orks who have bad initiative values. Precision shotting with the sunrifle is also nice if not something that you should count on every time.

Given that they're not likely to survive for too long, I wouldn't put too many points into them. Keep them cheap.

I never both with H&R. I figure they shouldn't be anywhere near assault, and if they get shot&charged, they're probably dead anyway.

On Tau - I originally included them in army lists as a solutions to removing pathfinders/kroot/firewarriors. Their large blast being Ap4 Ignore cover, is really convenient for that purpose. The potential to blind them is just gravy.

I find it hilarious that hawks are the most likely to get close to the action, and the least likely to want to be in it

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The most devastating use of Hawks is to drop down and remove a vehicle somebody was planning to rely on.

Hit and run is a must given how squishy they are in assault, and Blind is a great way to screw over armies like the Guard, Tau, Nurgle Daemons, or Orks who have bad initiative values. Precision shotting with the sunrifle is also nice if not something that you should count on every time.

Given that they're not likely to survive for too long, I wouldn't put too many points into them. Keep them cheap.

Tau who don't have battlesuits*

Fire warrior/Kroot hordes.

Surprisingly nasty when I didn't bring my "feth your firewarrior" units.

Once brought a standard tervigon and flyrant spam list before the new book and got tabled by turn three (though to be fair it also had skyrays and devilfish for seeker missile boat platforms) and was actually outnumbered.

It's not as competitive as your typical Crisis suit, Broadside, and Riptide Farsight enclave spam list, but it's one of the more dangerous shooty footlists.

Obviously mechanized lists would be substantially less vulnerable as it was lacking in heavy vehicle killing capacity (relying on not quite enough Fusion suits to get the job done for anything Seeker missiles can't reliably penetrate).

The Hawks Talon has it's uses as well. It is a S5 AP5 3 Shot gun. Since you are usually dropping into the backfield you get to shoot it at the rear juicy armor of something while a regular dude throws the Haywire Grenade. I have yet to actually charge a vehicle with my Hawks as this tends to take out what I want it to before the assault phase.

 Kain wrote:
Once brought a standard tervigon and flyrant spam list before the new book and got tabled by turn three (though to be fair it also had skyrays and devilfish for seeker missile boat platforms) and was actually outnumbered.

Nice Anecdote.

That said, you're entirely right. Fire warriors are really underrated as infantry. In game they're basically the only basic troop choice that has good damage output and can take on more than other infantry without special weapons.

I can vouche for the haywire assault. If you can manage to have a 6 man unit assault a tank with the haywire you are almost alway going to kill it.
Another nifty trick is that you can use somewhat of a loophole in the grenade pack rule to GP a unit in the movement phase then shoot another in the shooting pgase. See http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592336.page for details.

I'm curious why a 6 man instead of the min 5 unit?

If you have 6 men you get the large blast version of the grenade pack.

Best config is always 6 men + exarch+ sunrifle. Drop in 24" away from your target, shoot them, then keep kiting them and blinding them if you can.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Once brought a standard tervigon and flyrant spam list before the new book and got tabled by turn three (though to be fair it also had skyrays and devilfish for seeker missile boat platforms) and was actually outnumbered.

Nice Anecdote.

That said, you're entirely right. Fire warriors are really underrated as infantry. In game they're basically the only basic troop choice that has good damage output and can take on more than other infantry without special weapons.

Oh yes it is anectdotal.

The main problem I'd see with it is, as I mentioned, poor anti-vehicle capacity, being a pain to set up, and anything that can ignore cover and their saving throw.

Hence why I mass biovores whenever I know I'm going to face a foot-tau list.

The extra-shot shenanigans were easily the most painful part of facing that Tau army. You'd never expect a Tau player to roll that many dice in one shooting phase.

Foot Tau lists are probably where you'd want blind. As well as things that aren't vulnerable to Firewarrior shots because S5 AP5 may not seem like much, but when a twelve man fire-warrior squad can throw out several dozen S5 Ap5 shots, most things that aren't outright immune are going to be hurt.

Of course, against that much overwatch, the last thing you'd ever want to do is assault.

I actually just threw together a unit of ten of them this week to put in my army for facing Imperial Guard. Their rifles will take out a bunch of Guardsmen, but they'll be focusing on my other stuff most of the time and likely leave the Hawks alone to get in close and assault a squadron of tanks... and that's where it gets ugly. IG tanks tend to sit around and not move much, so you're like to get full auto-hits. If all ten guys make it into the assault, you can likely blow the entire squadron. Assuming one grenade's a dud, that's still at least nine HP of damage, and you don't have to be in base contact with all of the tanks to hurt them, since damage is transferred in line. I had to read up on that this week to make sure I was understanding it right, and then reassure my cats after my bouts of evil laughter. A squadron of Leman Russ tanks is likely double or more the points of a Swooping Hawks squad (which even at 10 should come in just under 200).

The Haywire grenades also make them good for pouncing on Dreadnoughts, given that they have a nice Initiative and will strike before anything except, say, a Librarian Dreadnought. Hitting on 4's, say half the squad gets through... at that point, you should be able to count the Dreadnought dead.

People won't assume these weedy looking guys will be a serious threat to something like a Dreadnought or a tank squadron or even something like a Defiler (if people use those still) or, even better, a Land Raider. But they can be great at just murdering vehicles.

I guess smaller squads allows them to take on multiple targets, but I like to use my FA slots for other stuff as well, like Warp Spiders and Vyper Jetbikes. (I fell in love with the Spiders after going insane all over the table with their movement in a game.)

You might also try Warp Spiders. Not as much range but they shred just about anything. Deep strike in, shoot the hell out of something, use Battle Focus to run away 2d6 (Warp Spiders can use their packs to run) and then if you feel like you aren't far enough away they can move a further 2d6 in the assault phase due to being jet pack infantry (regardless of deepstriking or not). A squad of 10 of these guys will put the hurt on any unit and they have a 3+ armor save making them almost as durable as a marine in most cases if you can't get them behind cover.

I am fairly sure warp spiders cant run 2d6.

Lol running 2D6 is a no no.

They can move 12" battle focus D6 JSJ 2D6, rolling doubles kills one random member.

 Arbiter wrote:
Lol running 2D6 is a no no.

They can move 12" battle focus D6 JSJ 2D6, rolling doubles kills one random member.

Actaully if they use their jetpacks in the movement phase they move 6" +2d6 then can shoot, run 1d6 and then thrust move a further 2d6. Doubles will kill them in only during the movement phase however as per the special rules on page 67 of C:Eldar, and the thrust move rules based on page 47 of the Dark Vengance rulebook. All jump Jet infantry move 2d6 as a thrust move. Spiders only take the penalty during the movement phase RaW.

 Arbiter wrote:
Lol running 2D6 is a no no.

They can move 12" battle focus D6 JSJ 2D6, rolling doubles kills one random member.

Warp Jump happens in movement phase, you can choose to use it or not . If you choose to move as jet unit ,they can only move 6" as their unit type is infantry.

 Kain wrote:

Oh yes it is anectdotal.

The main problem I'd see with it is, as I mentioned, poor anti-vehicle capacity, being a pain to set up, and anything that can ignore cover and their saving throw.

Hence why I mass biovores whenever I know I'm going to face a foot-tau list.

The extra-shot shenanigans were easily the most painful part of facing that Tau army. You'd never expect a Tau player to roll that many dice in one shooting phase.

Foot Tau lists are probably where you'd want blind. As well as things that aren't vulnerable to Firewarrior shots because S5 AP5 may not seem like much, but when a twelve man fire-warrior squad can throw out several dozen S5 Ap5 shots, most things that aren't outright immune are going to be hurt.

Of course, against that much overwatch, the last thing you'd ever want to do is assault.

They have better anti-vehicle than Space Marines, and that's saying something.

Again, you're right. Baharroth ruins Tau's day when they don't run many battlesuits, blind really hurts them.

 ErikSetzer wrote:
The Haywire grenades also make them good for pouncing on Dreadnoughts, given that they have a nice Initiative and will strike before anything except, say, a Librarian Dreadnought. Hitting on 4's, say half the squad gets through... at that point, you should be able to count the Dreadnought dead.

Ironically, after giving this example, I had a Librarian Dreadnought get in too close to my lines and wreck a squad of Dire Agengers, and I then assaulted with my Hawks, who actually got to strike before the Dreadnought, glancing it into oblivion.

I tried a similar tactic on an Imperial Knight, but rolled horribly and one did one HP before it stomped the squad. Given that it was already well damaged, an average bit of rolling from my whittled-down squad should have brought it tumbling to the ground.

And I've also seen now what 30 shots, even at S3, can do. I'm a huge fan of Blind, especially against something like Necrons.

I like the Warp Spiders being recommended, too. I keep working them into my army, because their mobility is obscene (6+2D6" in Movement, D6" in Shooting, 2D6" in Assault phase) and the guns are pretty useful against infantry (even armored targets) but really nice against non-walker vehicles (lots of S7 shots). Want to bring a flyer down? Get Guide (or Prescience) off on a unit of Spiders, hop them over to within range of the flyer, and then fire a bunch of shots at it. Should get some hits in, and S7 can hurt.

Hawks are excellent, if only because they will infuriate your opponent. Add an extra model and a Sunrifle, and they will do work.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: they're infantry, so you can get linebreaker with them for an easy 1VP. It's a good use for a squad that gets shot up too much to otherwise contribute to the game.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Hawks are excellent, if only because they will infuriate your opponent. Add an extra model and a Sunrifle, and they will do work.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: they're infantry, so you can get linebreaker with them for an easy 1VP. It's a good use for a squad that gets shot up too much to otherwise contribute to the game.

And skyleaping...and scoring in the scouring...possibly soon to be scoring all the time.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Hawks are excellent, if only because they will infuriate your opponent. Add an extra model and a Sunrifle, and they will do work.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: they're infantry, so you can get linebreaker with them for an easy 1VP. It's a good use for a squad that gets shot up too much to otherwise contribute to the game.

The only reason i dont use them is because they just die so easy. 6 toughness 3 models with 4+ armor die like uber fast. Hope you can take out 106(+) points of models with there grenades and las guns before they die.