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Edit: Alright - I'm going to drop that second list with the AM detachment and add a tweaked list instead. I really like the idea of changing out the plasma cannons for the plasma guns on the tactical squads, that makes a lot of sense and is a good easy change.


1: Do you feel this list will suffer horribly? (I'm not concerned with winning/losing as much as I am learning/having fun but I would prefer to not get completely hammered and would like to make them work for their victory.)
2: If you could make one change to the roster, what would it be and why?
3: If you could make any changes to the tactics what would they be?
4: How do you feel about the changes made to the second list?
5: I was considering dropping the Predator from the second list entirely and upgrading the Aegis Defense Line to a Firestorm Redoubt Bunker, would you consider making that change?


Note: I'm not interested in fielding any named units, we mostly play at 1850 points.


Current Army List is as follows;

HQ - [6] Terminator Librarian with command squad (1 Librarian with Terminator Armor, Force Sword, Storm Bolter, - 5 Terminators, Assault Cannon, Chain Fist, Apothecary)

TROOP 1 - [10] Tactical Marine Squad (1 sergeant boltgun - 1 marine with plasma cannon and bolt pistol, 8 marines with boltgun and bolt pistols, all units have frag and krak grenades)

TROOP 1 - [10] Tactical Marine Squad (1 sergeant boltgun - 1 marine with plasma cannon and bolt pistol, 8 marines with boltgun and bolt pistols, all units have frag and krak grenades)

ELITE 1 - [8] Terminator Sqaud (1 sergeant with storm bolter and power sword, 1 terminator with assault cannon and power fist, 1 terminator with storm bolter and chain fist, 5 terminators with storm bolter and power fists)

TRANSPORT 1 - [1] Land Raider Crusader (1 Land Raider Crusader with Deathwing Vehicle Upgrade)

TRANSPORT 2 - [1] Rhino (1 Rhino)

TRANSPORT 3 - [1] Rhino (1 Rhino)

HEAVY 2 - [5] Devastator Squad (1 sergeant with bolter, 2 marines with missile launchers, frag, krakk, and flakk missiles, 1 marine with misslie launcher, frag, and krakk missiles, 1 marine with las cannon and bolt pistol, all units have frag and krakk grenades)

FAST ATTACK 1 - [5] Bike Squad (1 Ravenwing sergeant with chainsword, and twin-linked bolt guns, 1 biker with plasma gun and twin-linked bolt guns, 2 bikers with bolt pistol and twin-linked bolt guns, 1 attack bike with multi-melta gun and twin-linked bolt guns)

FORTIFICATION - [1] Aegis Defense Line (1 Aegis Defense Line with Quad Cannon)

General Tactic Used: Devastator Squad sets up behind aegis defense line, sergeant takes control of the quad cannon and they provide 48" anti-air and anti-armor support. Bike squad attempts to turbo boost behind cover towards opponents armor if possible. Librarian Squad is held in reserve until turn 2 so they can teleport in via homing beacon from the bike squad and assist with anti-armor. Land Raider filled with 8 terminators and both Rhinos filled with 10 marines press towards objectives.



Altered list after receiving recommendations

HQ - [6] Terminator Librarian with command squad (1 Librarian with Terminator Armor, Force Sword, Storm Bolter, - 5 Terminators, Assault Cannon, Chain Fist, Apothecary, Banner of Devastation - 430 points)

TROOP 1 - [10] Tactical Marine Squad (1 sergeant boltgun - 1 marine with plasma cannon and bolt pistol, 8 marines with boltgun and bolt pistols, all units have frag and krak grenades - 155 points)

TROOP 2 - [10] Tactical Marine Squad (1 sergeant boltgun - 1 marine with plasma gun and bolt pistol, 8 marines with boltgun and bolt pistols, all units have frag and krak grenades - 155 points)

TROOP 3 - [5] Scout Squad (1 sergeant with sniper rifle, 4 scouts with sniper rifles, 5 units with cammo cloaks - 70 points)

ELITE 1 - [6] Terminator Sqaud (1 sergeant with storm bolter and power sword, 1 terminator with assault cannon and power fist, 1 terminator with storm bolter and chain fist, 3 terminators with storm bolter and power fists - 289 points)

TRANSPORT 1 - [1] Land Raider Crusader (1 Land Raider Crusader with Deathwing Vehicle Upgrade - 280 points)

TRANSPORT 2 - [1] Razorback (1 Razorback with twin-linked Heavy Bolter - 55 points)

TRANSPORT 3 - [1] Rhino (1 Rhino - 35 points)

FAST ATTACK 1 - [5] Bike Squad (1 Ravenwing sergeant with chainsword, and twin-linked bolt guns, 1 biker with plasma gun and twin-linked bolt guns, 2 bikers with bolt pistol and twin-linked bolt guns, 1 attack bike with multi-melta gun and twin-linked bolt guns - 177 points)

HEAVY SUPPORT 1 - [1] Predator (1 Predator with Autocannon Turret and Heavy Bolter Sponsons - 95 points)

FORTIFICATION - [1] Aegis Defense Line (1 Aegis Defense Line with Quad Cannon - 100 points)

I made a couple tweaks to it based off some recommendations. I dropped the Devastator Squad and 2 of the 8 terminators in the second squad to free up points and was able to add a scout squad (additional troop choice for more objectives, plus sniper rifles have potential) A banner of Devastation since I'll place the HQ team in the Land Raider and have the Rhino unload 10 marines next to the Crusader at the same time for some nice wall of bullets. I was able to upgrade one Rhino to a Razorback since using combat squad to have 5 with the plasma cannon stay behind at the aegis defense line and the other 5 push forward towards an objective. Finally, that left me just under 100 points so I threw in a Predator with sponsons to help back up the 5 man tactical squad behind the wall and the scouts on my side of the table.

1) Depends on your local power level, the list doesn't look overpowered or underpowered, so if the other players are on the same level should do fine.

2) Plasma Guns in the Tactical Squads instead of Cannons. It's the same number of points so no issue there, but if they are piling out of a Rhino a Gun synergies better (more likely to be close enough for rapid fire, can move and fire) with the squad's bolt guns, whereas the Cannon cannot fire the turn it disembarks and limits the mobility of the unit.

Honestly, I'd suggest other changes (that would be more involved and require points from somewhere), but that's the one I'd choose if I'm limited to one change.

3) You've only got two scoring units, and you are piling them into Rhinos and driving forward. Even if you combat-squad them (remember you can still embark both halves into the same transport) you'll need to place objectives in your opponent's half of the table. You've got no one left to hold home objectives, so Emperor's Will (where you have one objective in each deployment zone) will mean leaving a Tac squad at home (so a possible argument for Plasma Cannons over Guns here).

{Edit} One possible alternative here is to combat-squad one tactical and leave half with the objective and quad-gun. That way they have range and all your anti-air eggs aren't in the same basket. {/Edit}

4-5) Not sure what the allied detachment is adding here, the MoO? I don't have the latest Guard (Astra Miliwhatever) Codex but that doesn't look like a legal setup (Infantry squads used to need a platoon, and voxes only worked if both units had them - that might have changed).

Right you are about platoons. However he may mean veterans, and if this is the case veterans without wargear, you would be better off taking another tac squad.

1) not overwhelming, not "weak" you are using marines and terminators after all.
2) I agree with Quanar about the guns over cannons. However i would prolly change the devastators, why 1 lascannon over another ML possibly with flakk if needed.
3) If youre using bikes to take our armor, consider a melta over plasma, and consider melta bombs on the srgt.
4) The second list lacks even more on the AA and also AT. more scoring units is good but they also need to serve a purpose to be competitive.
5) I would consider switching the librarian to something else and maybe adding 2 inquistors for divination for dirt cheap. split them up a bit and gives you two prescience a turn. If you want to ally in guard, i would drop the chimeras make them vets, and kit them out a bit then use them to camp the ADL and hold back field objectives. then use the CCS to man your quad gun, drop the MoO he is very unreliable. and drop the vox. for 77 pts you get 10 vets with camo gear, defensive grenades, 3 snipers and a precision bolter.

1. Your first list is fine for friendly games, so long as your meta is more or less the same. It does not suck, but it won't beat a deathstar.

2. If I could make one change, I would add a banner of something, probably devastation. Your command squad can't make use of it, but the land raider, bikes and average joe marines will. This segways into #3

3. Put the command squad in the crusader and deep strike the tac terminators. With deathwing assault, they will have twin linked guns from the drop. Your command squad can get twin linked shooting and assault from the libby, but the terminators are currently on their own. It also gets more of your points shooting guaranteed off the bat. If they are using the dev banner, your marines can anchor around the LRC and lay waste to enemies by drowning them in boltgun fire.

4. I do think the second list is stronger, because of the dakka banner and the LRC.

5. I would drop the AM. They are not really doing anything your DA can't do better. If you want AM allies, you would be looking at an infantry blob, vendetta, arty, tank commander, etc. Just some regular guardsmen are not helping when you have stubborn marines at your disposal. Always find points for a multi melta on land raiders,drop plasma cannons for guns on rhino mounted squads,

If you are using terminators then I will certainly advocate TH/SS over the standard loadout. In my lists they would all have hammers.

Still, If I had to make one change to list one, then I would try and get Azrael in there. (And change the command squad to be normal terminators).

This way you gain 3 more scoring units, and a decent warlord.

Oh, one other question. What are your thoughts about dropping both the Aegis Defense Line and Predator from the altered list, and upgrading the fortification to a Firestorm Redoubt?