Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The title really makes the question, I dont know whos better as core choice, Im aware they have different rolls but which is more competative... slash better? I know better is an subjective term but whats the general consensus

Ironguts - 5+, Strength 6, ASL, More expensive, +1 Leadership
Bulls - 5+/6++ (ironfirst), +1 Attack (X hand weapon), I 2, Cheaper

Help me dakka... your my only hope

Both. Bulls destroy regular infantry with the same number of wounds as ironguts. Use ironguts to take down big things. Imho each unit should have at least 8 ogres, 12 for a gutstar

Both. I have been successful by either having only ogres, or only guts, or both. Or only gnoblars. Just joking.

I'd personally go guts, as they have the higher Strength, making them more versatile, as well as the magic banner allotment.

Where Ironguts are hard hitting, we need to remember that they strike last (good to remember thats when their stomp attacks happen if they can). Having them being either your main line or support is alright, but only having one kind of core choice would be a bad idea for ogre armies. If you field bulls in horde formation, don't give them additional hand weapons, as supporting ranks already have three attacks. Giving bulls ironfists are a good choice so you don't need to worry much about strength 3 infantry with weapons that give them +1 strength.

Depends, you can get to str6 from wildform and bullguts (or whatever the +1 str spell from Maw is), having two spells plus say troll guts means one should be getting off. If going character heavy savage beasts is, well savage. Also depends on the size of the unit, a very large unit I'd say go with bulls due to the cost savings.

I'm Ironguts all the way with this.

While i see use for and do actually use both, Guts are just far superior.

Pros:
Str 6 base
Better armour standard
better Ld (crucial for ogres)
magic banner allowance

Cons
ASL- not over important really, your an ogre at I2, you are generally going last anyway, so i would rather hit last at str 6 than str 4.
no parry save that bulls can get

for me the slowness of ogres means the choice of I2 or GW is not the gap it is for say an elf, where they are actually sacrificing AFL to increase str.

that combined with the standard of discipline for the ability for an Ld 9 or 10 bubble is too good to pass up IMHO. also if the unit has the Ld banner it means the bsb can take a different banner, probably either the rune maw (magic defence) or something like the razor standard or dragonhide banner (more offense)

You need to have both. I usually run either 2 8 man bulls and an 8 of 'guts or 12 of bulls and 8-12 if 'guts. It's over the 25% of core but i feel you need the bodies in ogres. Always 3 wide, never wider. You're getting 12-13 attacks plus impacts plus stomps plus ranks and you'll need every bit with base Ld 7/8.

Both.

Bulls are better against basic infantry on a point per kill basis.

Ironguts shine when the enemy reaches T5+ or saves of 3+ or better. They'll die much quicker than bulls against weaker infantry and the +2str doesn't make a huge difference.


In a twist, the bulls become better than Ironguts against T8 or higher because more wounds and more attacks.

Bulls are also much more resilient(Parry saves are very much worth it) and receive delicious Gutmagic buffs better(str is largely wasted on Ironguts)