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Goodday dear sirs and madams,

I'm looking to start a warmachine army (yay). But as it is totally new to me I'd like some advice from more experienced players beforehand so I dont flush 100's of $ down the toilet. I did some reading about the lightning of Cygnar and fire / buff stuff from Mehoth and about Khador NOT being an army which deploys a ton of warjacks to win battle (the latter makes me cry my eyes out because the warjacks from Khador are so awesome, but lets put that aside for a moment). Then I thought, how would lists from those factions be and playstyles be like ?! -> This is where you guys hopefully can fill in because all the information is a little overwhelming, while reading forums talking about some "eIruss, buffing abilities from blabla" is not quite helpfull when I dont know what those words actually mean. I read that some of you use 2 or 3 lists with the same army, to tailor specific needs and that warcasters can completely change the whole way an army works, so... hope you guys can help me out with suggesting a certain faction and have a few lists that work well with the pointers I give, so I can look up the models / battle reports orso.

(TLDR please give me some advice on a few armylists or faction fitting my desired playstyle & modelchoice) because getting that first right starterbox is so important .

I'd like an army that:
* can play "reactive" to the other army
* likes to shoot/cast rather than combat
* has multiple warjacks that do the demolishing
* a warcaster that is in a "powersuit" would be totally awesome
* does not have his caster in the frontline of the army (Im affraid it gets sniped or instakilled in a wrong move) or isnt that a problem? :S
* has a not-to-steep learning curve (or, for that matter, has a list that is rather straightforward to begin with)
* rather not use cavalry/beasts
* can have synergy but the buffing synergy is not the MAIN thing within the whole army
* doesnt need the battle engines/ colossals to work properly on lower points (my wallet's not that thick).

I hope you guys can help out with those pointers, if you need more info, please ask.

/salute,

Jaap

First of all I'd like to welcome you to warmachine! It's an excellent game with pretty good mechanics and balancing. The rules are also pretty clear and errata is released fairly regularly to iron out the problems.

If you prefer shooting to melee combat your two best bets are cygnar and retribution. I don't know of any warcasters wearing any head to toe "power armor" but menoth casters wear armor sometimes.

I can provide some more insight to cygnar as that's the faction I play, and I went through the same thing a few months ago. Cygnar is certainly focused on ranged combat and they excel at it. I'm not sure if when you say reactive play you want to have stuff like counter charge or if you want an adapting strategy as the game progresses. Cygnar can be fairly diverse and adaptable with their access to large amounts of mercenaries which really fill the faction's gaps and it's the mercs that really make cygnar shine. If you want to play a purely in-faction army Cygnar isn't going to be your cup of tea. Cygnaran cavalry is okay but by no means necessary although that might change as opinions on the latest version of stryker come in as he is cavalry focused. I know a lot of lists have the stormwall in them however I'm currently surviving just fine without it and I'm certainly not getting the battle engine any time soon as it's a rather niche model. I can go in further detail, but I'd prefer not typing it if I don't have to since I'm in class right now so if you want to hear more about the army just PM me.

Edited for grammar

Just replying to clarify for others:

inferno445 wrote:
First of all I'd like to welcome you to warmachine! It's an excellent game with pretty good mechanics and balancing. The rules are also pretty clear and errata is released fairly regularly to iron out the problems.

thanks

inferno445 wrote:

I don't know of any warcasters wearing any head to toe "power armor"

Casters like Darius, Karchev, Blaize, Exhumator, Kreos are casters I mean by "power armor" the big bulky lightjack type.

inferno445 wrote:

I'm not sure if when you say reactive play you want to have stuff like counter charge or if you want an adapting strategy as the game progresses.

im not someone barging through front doors, I like to see what my opponent is up to, and then react to them. This normally means I shoot a lot in the 1 and 2nd turn, because, what else should I do while staying at range.

inferno445 wrote:

Cygnar can be fairly diverse and adaptable with their access to large amounts of mercenaries which really fill the faction's gaps and it's the mercs that really make cygnar shine. If you want to play a purely in-faction army Cygnar isn't going to be your cup of tea.

I want to keep it 1 pure faction, yes.

PMing you for some other questions.

Jaap wrote:

I'd like an army that:
* can play "reactive" to the other army
* likes to shoot/cast rather than combat
* has multiple warjacks that do the demolishing
* a warcaster that is in a "powersuit" would be totally awesome
* does not have his caster in the frontline of the army (Im affraid it gets sniped or instakilled in a wrong move) or isnt that a problem? :S
* has a not-to-steep learning curve (or, for that matter, has a list that is rather straightforward to begin with)
* rather not use cavalry/beasts
* can have synergy but the buffing synergy is not the MAIN thing within the whole army
* doesnt need the battle engines/ colossals to work properly on lower points (my wallet's not that thick).

Reactive is more how you play rather than a specific army style I think. But WM/H is designed to be an aggressive game. Sitting back and shooting won't win you a lot of scenario games. Plan on playing mixed arms, Even a gunline army needs some grunts up front to take objectives and slow down the enemy.

Warmachine is a bit of a misnomer. Warmachine armies tend to like hordes of infantry. Most of them tend to use 1-2 jacks. Sometimes you can get away with up to 3. Rarely will you go above that. Hordes OTOH tends to like lots of beasts and runs fewer troops.

Most casters tend to be middle or back. There are far from invulnerable and losing yours means the game is over.

The entire game has a steep learning curve. Expect to lose a lot early on, especially if you play against people who have been playing for awhile. If you can, try to find other new-ish people and maybe a journeyman league. Jopurneyman leagues are slow build leagues that start with a battlebox and, in general, are designed with newer players in mind.

All factions have/need synergy. You can just throw stuff together, but it doesn't usually work well. Very few things are simply good all on their own. That said, Menoth is easily the most synergistic. Cygnar is pretty reliant on each other as well. Cryx probably has some of the best "stand alone" units, but even then they are better with buffs/debuffs.

I don't think cavalry nor huge bases (battle engines and colossals) are required for any faction to be competitive. There are good ones out there, but they are not a requirement.

Based on your criteria you are going to have to have a little give and take. But the good news is most factions have a variety of playstyles. For example, playing Cygnar doesn't lock you into a gunline. There are plenty of ways to run melee heavy.

I'd tend to lean towards Cygnar for you. They are tougher to learn, IMO, especially if you are not interested in mercenaries (which you will probably want to consider at least a few solos). However, they meet a lot of your other preferences and have Jr warcasters and excellent jack marshals that might let you bring an extra warjack to the fight. Frankly, though If you start off with battleboxes as you learn the game and a bit about an army then if you are unsure of your choice you can usually switch before you invest too much money. And everyone I know who plays with any sort of regularity has at least two armies.

Hope that helps a bit.

* can play "reactive" to the other army

Protectorate or Trollbloods

* likes to shoot/cast rather than combat

Any faction but Cryx, Trollbloods or Legion. Cygnar and Retribution get special mention. Protectorate shooting is strong as well. However, in all but the shootiest of the shootiest armies melee combat will play an important role.

* has multiple warjacks that do the demolishing

Protectorate. No other faction save Cyriss (which I would not reccomend for a new player) has multiple 'Jacks doing the core of the heavy lifting in the majority of the faction. Protectorate is unique in this respect among the "Main" factions.

* a warcaster that is in a "powersuit" would be totally awesome

Most warcasters wear Warcaster armor, which could be considered a "Power Suit". However in terms of being bigger and bulkier, only Cygnar has darius.

* does not have his caster in the frontline of the army (Im affraid it gets sniped or instakilled in a wrong move) or isnt that a problem? :S

All factions can do this. Protectorate, Cygnar and Legion probably run with this theme the strongest. Protectorate is the only faction in the game with 0 front-line casters.

* has a not-to-steep learning curve (or, for that matter, has a list that is rather straightforward to begin with)

All factions have a roughly equal learning curve save maybe Legion and Circle.

* rather not use cavalry/beasts

In no faction is the cavalry mandatory. Any Warmachine faction will mean you aren't using beasts.

* can have synergy but the buffing synergy is not the MAIN thing within the whole army.

Any faction but Trollbloods. Protectorate has the probably the best "Syngergy" sub-theme without it taking them over. Cygnar and Khador also get special mention. All factions rely on synergy to at least some degree.

* doesnt need the battle engines/ colossals to work properly on lower points (my wallet's not that thick).

No faction needs them. Cygnar and Mercs are the closest to being dependent on them.


Protectorate of Menoth sounds like the best match for you gameplay wise, by a wide margin. Followed by Cygnar. Avoid Cryx, Khador and Hordes factions like the plague.

I'd like an army that:
* can play reactive to the other army

Most factions can do this but it is important to build for it. If you play reactive you'll need the ability to clear a scenario zone after the opponent pilerd in his troops.

* likes to shoot/cast rather than combat

This will rule out skorne and cryx.

* has multiple warjacks that do the demolishing

This rules out cryx, khador, and retribution.

* a warcaster that is in a powersuit would be totally awesome

Probably not a hordes force then -maybe Xerxis but skorne doesn't seem like what you are looking for.

* does not have his caster in the frontline of the army (Im affraid it gets sniped or instakilled in a wrong move) or isnt that a problem? :S

Very few casters can survive on the front line. Assassinations are a thing.

* has a not-to-steep learning curve (or, for that matter, has a list that is rather straightforward to begin with)

The learning curve is fairly steep on the whole game. Circle and convergence are probably the most difficult to get the hang of.

* rather not use cavalry/beasts

No beasts rules out hordes rather decisively.

* can have synergy but the buffing synergy is not the MAIN thing within the whole army

No convergence then. Protectorate is borderline.

* doesnt need the battle engines/ colossals to work properly on lower points (my wallet's not that thick).

None of them need colossals to start but cygnar -and especially mercenaries- love their colossals and will push you to buy them sooner rather than later.

It seems like cygnar, protectorate, and mercenaries are more your style.

Cygnar doesn't typically play as many jacks as you want but they are ahead of khador and retribution. They don't smash a lot of face but they have a very accurate ranged game to help you play reactive.

Protectorate probably has a little more synergy tan you are looking but they looove jacks and offer a good lineup of denial abilities and ranged infantry. They have lots of folks in heavy armor

Mercenaries will want you to get a colossal eventually but they are versatile enough to play almost any playstyle. They rely on jack marshals to get the number of jacks you are looking so you won't be sending in multiple fully loaded melee heavies but it is well-suited for a ranged list.

 Chongara wrote:

Protectorate of Menoth sounds like the best match for you gameplay wise, by a wide margin. Followed by Cygnar. Avoid Cryx, Khador and Hordes factions like the plague.

Would you mind giving me some list advice for the Protectorate faction given my pointers?

You'll probably like a pKreoss Pop-n-Drop style list.


General core of the list is,

pKreoss
-Reckoner
-Vanquisher
-Redeemer

Choir
2 Vassals
Taryn di la Rovissi(mercenary gunmage chick)

2 units of infantry(Zealots, Errants, or TFG. All with UA. Pick 2 and you can't go wrong)



This list wins by assassinating the enemy Warcaster from range while also being decent in melee, scenario, and attrition. Its not a one trick pony.

Its called Pop-n-drop because Kreoss Pop's feat, which knocks the enemy down, then all his jacks shoot the enemy caster up. No caster can survive taking the many shots.

It doesn't work on casters who can't be knocked down though. Taryn is also a necessity in case the enemy caster is hiding behind a model that can't be knocked down(like a Colossal), she can shoot it to make it invisible for LoS purposes.

The good news is that the models in this list aren't specialized either. They work in just about any Protectorate list.

Jaap wrote:

 Chongara wrote:

Protectorate of Menoth sounds like the best match for you gameplay wise, by a wide margin. Followed by Cygnar. Avoid Cryx, Khador and Hordes factions like the plague.

Would you mind giving me some list advice for the Protectorate faction given my pointers?

The poster above me has given some nice options. It's hard to say exactly as we're still painitng in broad strokes. So I'll give you a rundown of the important pieces in Protectotae that make think they're a good match.

Warcasters

High Exemplar Kreoss (pKreoss): This is the caster that comes in the starter sets for protectorate. He's a rear-line support caster with poor defensive stats, a good spell list and a powerful feat. He supports a defensive or reactive playstyle because he has both a good defenseive buff "Defenders Ward" making a model/unit both harder to hit and harder to damage and he also has purification which can remove magic effects from a wide portion of the battlefield. He supports ranged options because his feat knocks everything down. This means models no longer block line of site to key pieces (hint, hint like their warcaster) and are very easy to hit.

Grand Scrutator Severius (pSeverius): This is another rear-line support caster. He has a among the worst defensive stats in the game and so has to stay very far from the action and be protected. He has a FOCUS stat of 8, which is very high. He ha a good suite of buffs and shares pKreoss' "Defender's Ward" spell. In addition he has a spell called "Eye of Menoth" which increases the accuracy and damage of almost everything in your army. He works well with ranged elements because he works well with everything. Due to his versatile and powerful spell list just about any model or unit in Protectorate is a good match for him. Finally due to access to a special character Arc Node 'Jack (Blessing of Vengeance) a high FOCUS stat and powerful spells like "Ashes to Ashes" - which can kill up to 7 enemy models, even ones normally immune to magic, he is one of the few casters in the game that likes casting offensive damage spells directly.

There are other options you might enjoy such as Intercessor Kreoss, Harbinger of Menoth or Feora Protector of the Flame. However they're a bit less easily accesible than these two.

Warjacks

Reckoner: This is point for point arguably the best 'Jack in the game, and his hands down the best non-character 'Jack. This thing is crazy good. It has a decent gun that it can even use when it charges. With a good range and high POW there are few things in the game that won't take at least a few points from it. Anything it hits with the gun suffers a penalty to defense making it easier to hit with everything else. In addition it's got a good melee weapon with reach, always has concealment and enemy living models nearby it suffer a penalty on their attack rolls.

Vanquisher: A slow 'Jack with a short ranged gun. The gun is a high power, 4" AoE that automatically sets things on fire. This is an extremely powerful anti-infantry tool. Especially when given an extra shot by the vassal of menoth (see below). In a pinch it can also kill things in melee, despite a short threat range.

Redeemer: A light 'Jack with a rocket launcher. This has among the longest ranges in the game, and an extremely good Rate of Fire of 3. The rockets are inaccurate but thanks to things like Eye of Menoth, pKreoss Feat, the Reckoner's Flare and the normal buffs from the choir (see below) this can mitigated. The baseline power on the rockets isn't impressive, but you get many and after buffs they can even put dents in heavies. They're AoE 3, which is small but again you can shoot up to 3 in a turn with focus.

Units & Solos

Choir of Menoth These guys are what make Protectorate 'Jacks so good. They have three buffs of which they may use one per turn, on as many 'Jacks as there are members of the unit: Hymn of Passage: Prevents 'jacks from being hurt by ranged attacks, your opponent insn't allowed to target the 'Jacks with guns at all if the guns aren't magic. Hymn of Shielding: They can't target your 'Jacks with magic spells. Hymn of Battle: Makes you 'jacks both more accurate and hit harder by giving a +2 to bonus to attack and damage rolls. This is huge, and can make our light 'Jacks hit as hard some factions heavies.

Vassal of Menoth This guy has two abilties. Enliven - Which lets your 'Jacks walk away after taking damage from a single hit, making them hard to deal with in melee. Ancillary Attack: Which lets a 'jack immediatley make an attack - and it ignores rate of fire. Meaning you can get a second shot out of a Vanquisher or Reckoner or a 4th rocket out of a Redeemer. They can't aim for this shot since it's not their turn, but it also works on melee attaks.


We also have strong defensive choices not related to 'Jacks like the Holy Zealots that can be become immune to all damage except from feats and spells for one turn, oh and you're allowed to make it so they can't be targetted by spells. Read: They can only be damaged by feats. Note: There are only like 3 feats that cause damage in the whole game.