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A new errata document has been released, mostly expected things, or nothing huge, except for a pretty major change to formation rules.

p. 72. Spells and Effects.
Add the following to the Spells and Effects text:
When a model’s special rule or spell allows its controller to
choose or target a friendly unit, all models in that unit must be
in formation.

The new formation rule says that in order to be targeted by a friendly spell or ability that affects a unit, the unit has to have ALL models in formation - no hanging back a model. That stops the old "Khador arc node" trick of hanging back a model out of formation to cast spells on. It also affects a lot of other situations, and you'll have to be more careful about model placement if you plan to use unit buffs before they can move into formation

They've also changed the names of a bunch of units (Arcane Tempest Gun Mages becomes Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Pistoleers), with corrosponding changes to the theme forces they're included in. That's possibly to make way for newer units of a certain type, or to clear up theme force issues with overlapping names, I'm not sure.

http://privateerpress.com/files/WM%20MKII%20Rules%20Errata%20May%202014.pdf

Change the unit name to “Arcane Tempest Gun Mage
Pistoleers.

Ah why do you tease me PP, my first thought is that soon we'll have ATGM riflemen, but we all know I can't be that lucky.

The name changes seem to be more of a way to classify models for ability or theme list purposes.

Also, the Khador clamjacks now have it in easy access writing for their new ability.

And finally, while the targeting rule change is a touch harsh, I completely understand it.

Now, why do pistoleers have swords?

 sing your life wrote:
Now, why do pistoleers have swords?

Take epic caine and they don't need to use them

 motyak wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Now, why do pistoleers have swords?

Take epic caine and they don't need to use them

Even if you use Caine2 the models have swords

I know, but they are too cool to use them

 sing your life wrote:
Now, why do pistoleers have swords?

Because Gunfighter wasn't a thing when the unit was first conceived.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Now, why do pistoleers have swords?

Because Gunfighter wasn't a thing when the unit was first conceived.

Half of the MK2 gun mages have their swords out.

So if I can move one of the troopers at the edge of your unit out of formation then you can't cast spells on the whole unit?

...

I guess it's a minor change and you might be able to work around it (like by killing your model that was thrown out of formation first) but it still seems like an awfully silly way of solving the problem.

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
So if I can move one of the troopers at the edge of your unit out of formation then you can't cast spells on the whole unit?

...

I guess it's a minor change and you might be able to work around it (like by killing your model that was thrown out of formation first) but it still seems like an awfully silly way of solving the problem.

Yes and no. It really only affects people that spread their units out stupidly. You're gonna have to move that unit leader pretty damn far to get him out of CMD range. Besides, if someone wants to waste all their focus on several TKs to shake up some activations then be my guest. I'll just reorganise on the fly.

To quote DC on the PP forums.

The bottom line, though, is that formation should matter. A unit of dudes should act like a unit of dudes, not a constellation of models spread across the table as a buff engine.

Most defensive abilities won't be affected, as you can just use them after the unit has reformed. Most offensive upkeeps won't be affected unless you're juggling them.

The rest of the abilities that might be affected are more situational (If you really need Pathfinder or Fearless from the Piper, or if you want a non-upkeep offensive buff on a unit, for example), and it's not as easy for most armies/casters to actually get a trooper out of formation (assuming you haven't spread the unit to max CMD range) in a way that doesn't mean you're either expending a lot of resources to do it, or leaving yourself open to counter-attack. I mean, it's definitely a thing, but not as big as it's made out to be.

From my perspective, about the only affect I think it'll have on my Menoth is using the Piper's Pathfinder or Fearless... and since I'm usually using him with Errants who come with pathfinder/fearless in-built, it's really not an issue. I suppose it could also interfere with Guided hand or Ignite (when not upkeeping it), but it'd be pretty rare for it to matter much.

I won't really affect me either. I never really used the whole "Khador arc node" trick, which is what it really is going to effect for us.

I'm trying to think of a way to explain what I'm thinking. What bothers me is

1. it's unintuitable. It doesn't make sense that because that one guy over there is out of formation, none of the unit can be affected by things.
2. it leads to gotcha moments, which the game already has in abundance. This is what's happening in my mind:

"I activate the Fell Caller and +2 the Fennblades."
"But last turn you field promoted and as a result of that your one guy on the flank looks out of CMD."
*measures* "You're right. Uh. Well then I guess my Fell Caller... does I don't know what. And now my Fennblades can do I don't know what because they can't hit your guys. THANKS PRIVATEER THIS WAS A FUN GAME"

In practical terms I expect it'll be caused by field promotion more often than anything, since that's the cheapest way of causing it. You can imagine other ways, like drag, throws, telekinesis, etc etc but often those will be pretty costly.

There are a lot of lists that won't be affected by this ever, but in the situations it does come up I think it's guaranteed to cause stupid situations and frustration, and that's not great design. A cure worse than the disease.

If PP had said that you can cast at units but the models out of formation don't benefit then it would open up a huge can of worms. Does the model gain the benefit after it rejoins the formation? Does a model lose the benefit if it finds itself out of formation? When does the in/out of formation affect the benefit? If the model doesn't gain the benefit then how do I keep track of who does and who doesn't?
This way it's easy either the whole unit has it or it doesn't.

They don't need to say the models out of formation don't benefit, just that you can't target an out of formation model with a spell or ability that affects a friendly unit.

You still end up with the question of whether the out of formation model is affected or not. And, whether the effect can be transferred to the out of formation model if it becomes the unit leader and is therefore, by definition, in formation.

You had that question before the errata, so I don't see how it isn't already answered.

I don't like it. I like the intention behind it (Fixing the Command Bunker ™) but I don't really like the implementation of it. Especially as medium base Trolls.

First time someone snipes out my drummer or piper and I didn't stack up 2/3 models around him for uptake--then inevitably get a guy out of my (now much smaller) CMD, I'll really hate it. "Can't Fell Call these 9 Fenns because that one guy is out of formation.." Or the first time one of my Fenns/Kriels are thrown at something else, I Tough...out of formation.


It also really doesn't hurt the one model everyone was wanting it fixed for--which is the Goat Lady. Other than the Witch Doc/Possible Pendrake Command bunker.

If it was "Must target a model in formation of the unit." It would probably be better received.

 sing your life wrote:
Now, why do pistoleers have swords?

Because things can make it disadvantageous/impossible to use your pistols.

Like being unable to make ranged attacks for example.

I really want to read this but I'm in school and the PP website is blocked. The arcane tempest gun mage pistoleers sounds far worse than gun mages. Now I guess they're ATGMP instead of ATGM.

Also with the whole in formation targeting thing, I think the buff should only be able to target in formation models and only affect in formation models. This fixes the issue and also doesn't completely ruin your strategy when that one model is just slightly out of formation. I've yet to encounter someone who pulled those shenanigans though so perhaps I'm not the best to patch the gap.

inferno445 wrote:
I really want to read this but I'm in school and the PP website is blocked. The arcane tempest gun mage pistoleers sounds far worse than gun mages. Now I guess they're ATGMP instead of ATGM.

Also with the whole in formation targeting thing, I think the buff should only be able to target in formation models and only affect in formation models. This fixes the issue and also doesn't completely ruin your strategy when that one model is just slightly out of formation. I've yet to encounter someone who pulled those shenanigans though so perhaps I'm not the best to patch the gap.

First, name changes rarely affect what people call anything. They'll still be Gun Mages as far as most people are concerned (or until they release gun make musketeers or something).

Second, on the PP forums, DC said they looked into all options and found this one to be the best. I think everyone is a lot more worried about this than they should be. Let's play it out for a year or so before we light torches.

I am not too worried about this errata honestly. It seems like a solid way to stop people from doing the khador arc node trick. Also helps with the trade offs for tight formation vs. being spread out. Because right now you see stuff like fennblades with the UA spreading out across the entire table, we each end of the unit being what 26 inches away from the other? Now if you do that you could potentially lose buffs next turn if try to pull that trick when I kill the UA or the drummer.

Though a part of me hopes that gun mages being remained arcane tempest gun mage pistoleers that we will get a arcane tempest gun mage riflemen and eSloan with them as her elite cadre. That would be cool.