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So i am a 40k player, and i came across Flames of War recently and i found it to look interesting. Being a wargamer and having a lot of interest in WWII i would like to know more.

- First of all, what are the rules like (if any of you listen to 40k news you will know that they are in a "bit" of a mess right now) and how does the game play?
- What is the developer like? (again, Games Workshop is terrible at what it does.)
- What are the models like in terms of quality, scale, customization opportunities and material?
- How much money do i need to spend in order to play, and how many models do i need for average size battles?
- Can i use acrylic primer/paint on the models?
- Can i successfully create full armoured divisions and play with them? (I am a tank enthusiast you see)
- Is there a Polish army? I ask because (surprise!) i happen to be Polish.
- And last but not least, how fun is the game?

If i was to say what armies interest me i would probably say either Polish (If there is such an army), British or American armoured armies (I love the looks of American and British late war tanks)
Also i am posting from my phone so my "web surfing" ability is limited.



Off topic; Post number 600. Yaaay!

Daemonhammer wrote:
So i am a 40k player, and i came across Flames of War recently and i found it to look interesting. Being a wargamer and having a lot of interest in WWII i would like to know more.

- First of all, what are the rules like (if any of you listen to 40k news you will know that they are in a "bit" of a mess right now) and how does the game play?

The game borrows a lot from 40K, and is fairly easy to play. It's not "40K WW2" by any means, but you'll understand the concepts very easily.

- What is the developer like? (again, Games Workshop is terrible at what it does.)

Talk of the developer tends to be polarizing. I'll just say that they seem to do a good job, though there are complaints about power creep in some of the specialized late war lists.

- What are the models like in terms of quality, scale, customization opportunities and material?

Battlefront has employed a number of sculptors over the years. Some are quite good. Some have issues. However, as World War 2 is public domain, there are plenty of other manufacturors that you can turn to if you're not happy with Battlefront's offerings.

- How much money do i need to spend in order to play, and how many models do i need for average size battles?

It really depends on the manufacturor, and the type of list that you're building. Different kinds of companies (as in, your army list) use different kinds of figures, which drive the cost in different ways. Having enough troops for two full platoons of infantry and a platoon of tanks plus other types of support, or two platoons of tanks plus other kinds of support, is a good starting point. You could probably use that as a way to gauge costs.

- Can i use acrylic primer/paint on the models?

Yes

- Can i successfully create full armoured divisions and play with them? (I am a tank enthusiast you see)

The game is built around company-sized formations. You *could* build an entire division, but you'd need to be very dedicated. Having said that, I happen to know that there's at least one guy who has collected and painted enough Tiger tanks to build an entire Heavy Panzer Battallion.

- Is there a Polish army? I ask because (surprise!) i happen to be Polish.

Yes. You can find lists for the Early War invasion of Poland in Blitzkrieg. You can find lists for the British-equipped Free Polish troops in the Western Mid-War book, and for Late War formations in various theater-specific books. For instance, the Polish forces in Late War Italy are covered in the Allied Italy book.

- And last but not least, how fun is the game?

As I mentioned above, the game can sometimes be polarizing. I like it, and I would imagine that most of the people posting in this sub-forum like it as well.

If i was to say what armies interest me i would probably say either Polish (If there is such an army), British or American armoured armies (I love the looks of American and British late war tanks)
Also i am posting from my phone so my "web surfing" ability is limited.

All three are represented.

Started in with FOW two years ago and haven't played 40K since. For me, it scratches the same itch.

I'm of Polish descent, so I like to play the Poles too. Many choices for them in early, mid, and late war for them. We mostly play Late War, so I have the 1st Polish Independent Parachute Brigade (in the Market Garden book), and the Polish 1st Armoured Division (from a free*** PDF on their website). Late War also has the Poles in Italy (Road to Rome book).

Also, while Battlefront has many good 15mm models, there are a number of great, third-party manufacturers. Many options for all preferences (plastic, metal, resin).

I still need to brush up on getting the rules (I only play every few months so always need a refresher on concealed vs. gone to ground vs. dug in, etc.), but if you are coming from 40K, you should be fine.

Mez

***Yes, a free PDF - that should help show a difference from GW right there.

Did you say "free pdfs" ? So no 60 euro books every 2 years and no 40 codexes etc every few months? By the Gods!

So anyway thanks for the help guys this game looks fun, I shall try it.

Well, there's still those books to buy, but it's mainly if you want to do so once you have the rules. From reports (I just started as well, so I'm still gathering up models rather than books just yet) they are chock full of information about the theater as well as the rules.

If you haven't already, I do recommend spending some time with Battlefront's Bootcamp videos: http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=106 The delivery is rather wooden, but as far as going over the basics of how the game plays they do cover the nuts and bolts really well IMO. They're broken up into nice chunks as well.

Also make sure to check out EasyArmy.com and you can build out Polish lists to your heart's content with a free account since they're a PDF atm. It doesn't tell you what a GOOD list is of course, but it helps you know what you'll need to buy and how much that will end up costing you since lists can vary pretty wildly. That was a big deal for me when starting out, since I didn't want to drop a bunch of money on kits and find out the particular list I wanted to field couldn't use them or getting too many of something and never being able to field all of it in normal games.

Actually got a couple of decent forces started and looking forward to getting them together and assembled myself. Looks like I'm going to have a fun few weeks trying to get all this stuff together.

Daemonhammer wrote:
Did you say "free pdfs" ? So no 60 euro books every 2 years and no 40 codexes etc every few months? By the Gods!

So anyway thanks for the help guys this game looks fun, I shall try it.

Most of those PDFs are basically beta tests and are rolled into the appropriate compilation when they work the kinks out of the list or are oddball armies. The remaining PDFs can be found HERE on Battlefront's website.

Welcome to the Adult table LOL

Any who FOW is a great way to break into Historical Gaming for 40K players.

The game is easy to pick up and learn! Also if you have a friend interested in playing the German the Open Fire starter set is a great way to break into late war!! They have a Allies Armored Company in the box!

I quickly got tired of FoW, ok they don't release a codex every few weeks but LW in particular contains power creep and min/max all the same. Also finding opponents is much easier in 40K, and I live in the same city as Battlefront. The 'historical gaming' aspect falls short when most games are walls of tanks lined up track-to-track.

So I looked at the FoW website and im somewhat confused, I think I have to get a rulebook, but what are all those other books like "Eastern front" or "Market garden"? Are they different campaigns or something?
Also how bad is that power creep you guys talk about?

Daemonhammer wrote:
So I looked at the FoW website and im somewhat confused, I think I have to get a rulebook, but what are all those other books like "Eastern front" or "Market garden"? Are they different campaigns or something?
Also how bad is that power creep you guys talk about?

The way FoW works is that you get your main rulebook, which has all the general rules needed to play the game. Then you buy specific books depending on the campaign you want. Market Garden and Bridge by Bridge are the books for Operation Market Garden. Blitzkrieg is the book for the Invasions of Poland and France. North Africa is for the desert conflict in North Africa and Tunisia.

And the 'power creep' only really applies when you get to Late-Late War, which really should be classified as something different, like "End War." Because WWII had such an incrediably fast pace of technological innovation, playing Early-War lists against Mid-War, or Mid-War against Late-War, is basically suicide for the earlier era, since the tanks and the guns get exponentially better the later in the war you go. The books that cover the last of the Soviet's push into Germany, the Battle of the Bulge, and probably the upcoming Remagen book have this problem when compared to the Normandy or Italy campaign books. So it's not such a problem of power creep as it is a problem of staying within a certain campaign.

Oh, and just... avoid US Tank Destroyer lists in Late War whenever possible.

Hmm so do I need a separate army for eacxh campaign?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And whats wrong with American tank destroyers?

Sooooooooooort of?

If you pick a nation, think of it in the scope of the period. My Brits and Germans are capable of being used in both Normandy and Market Garden, and I could easily expand them into Late-Late War. Americans are probably the best in that a basic infantry company is a-ok for use in both Mid-War and Late-War.

I've always found the best way to determine what you want to do is the find what your local community is into and choose from there. Or if there is no local community, pick what campaign interests you the most. Your safest bet is probably Normandy, since that's basically the 'face' of WWII in popular media and its relatively balanced - the Germans have a decent fighting chance against the British, Canadians, and Americans.

But dosent that create a situation where late war players are playing a different game to those who have early war armies?

Yep it does. There is a balance between the periods, but books from different periods are not balanced against each other.

However units do cross periods, for example my Finns can have t-26's in early, mid and late war; the points just change.

As for needing a seperate army for each campaign - sort of, but not really.

My German panzer 4's have been part of panzer lehr in Normandy, reformed in the Ardennes in '45. They've been part of 26 panzer in Italy and fought on the eastern front in late and mid war - and even had a brief foray into North Africa. The support changes in different places but the core is consistent.

Ah i see. I guess some machines saw combat for a large part of the war.

Daemonhammer wrote:
But dosent that create a situation where late war players are playing a different game to those who have early war armies?

This is by intent. The game is divided in to three periods - Early War, Mid-War, and Late War. Units are assigned points values in part based on what era their army list is from. So a StuG IIIG in a Mid-War book will cost significantly more than a StuG IIIG in a Late War book. The idea is that any two lists from the same era have their point costs set so that they should be valid opponents. But two lists from different eras won't.

Off the top of my head, the current groupings of the books are -

Early War

Blitzkrieg - The invasions of Poland (minus the Soviets) and France
Hellfire and Back - Early War Africa
Burning Empires - Greece and more Early War Africa
Rising Sun - The Winter War and the brief fighting between the Soviets and Japan


Mid War

North Africa - Mid War Western Front (despite the name, it includes forces for the campaigns in Italy as well as Africa)
Eastern Front - Mid War Eastern Front


Everything else is Late War (and there's a lot of it)


So a list from Burning Empires should in theory be able to fight a list from Blitzkrieg, as both books are from the Early War period (there might be other, practical reasons why that won't work, but those reasons won't be due to points values)

Hi there, not to be "that guy" but much of what you want was covered at the top of the board...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/504923.page

Alot of good stuff in there, and yes, you will be very happy to know there are alot of Polish options for various forces and periods!!

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=1622

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=201

http://www.wwpd.net/2012/10/on-pole-building-polish-army-part-two.html

Have fun!!!

Again, thanks for the help guys.

Also I read the 1st Polish Armoured PDF and I was positively suprised at how much effort and detail was put into it.

Daemonhammer wrote:
Again, thanks for the help guys.

Also I read the 1st Polish Armoured PDF and I was positively suprised at how much effort and detail was put into it.

Quite a few of the PDFs are submitted by fans. Anyone who's going to go to that much time and effort is obviously creating a labor of love. So it's not surprising to see a fair amount of detail. Plus, there are plenty of players who will go to the forums to note problematic parts of the PDF. So the PDFs end up being useful from an historical "broad strokes" perspective as well as a game play perspective.