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I'm not looking to do anything super competitive, but I want to be able to compete. Just wondering what yall think. Also, what are people's thoughts on running Illic with a squad of 10 pathfinders. I haven't had much experience playing with or against them.

HQ
140 Illic Nightspear

70 Spiritseer

TROOPS
250 10 Pathfinders

60 5 Rangers

60 5 Rangers

320 10 Wraithblades w. swords

320 10 Wraithblades w. axes

HEAVY SUPPORT
300 Wraithknight w. suncannon, scattershield, scatter laser

165 Wraithlord w. 2 bright lances, flamer, and ghostglaive

165 Wraithlord w. 2 bright lances, flamer, and ghostglaive

Well the wraiths will carry the list, as the rangers and illic are garbage competitive wise. But the wraith (guard, knight, and to some degree lords) can compete. In friendly games youll be fine, in a tournament setting youll struggle.
Rangers are just uber bad, as a 5 man squad does less than one meq wound per turn of shooting. So a ten man squad with illic might kill 3-4 regular tactical marines. Which is pretty bad.

Pathfinders used to be good. It used to be you didnt have to have a special character to upgrade them to pathfinders and they also didn't cost as much. The used to be good for sniping at squads but since 6th and the new Eldar codex they are pretty garbage. Mine haven't left the foam since I got new codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Remove Illic, Remove pathfnders/rangers and add a farseer or another spiritseer and another squad of 10 wraith units or 5 wraith units in a Wave serpent.

you guys are right to say that rangers damage output is poor. If you get lucky they may take out a lascannon or sergeant but don't count on it.

However...they do help me win games ALL THE TIME. 2 squads, one camps your backfield objective the other squad outflanks and scores linebreaker with ease. All for the low low price of 120 pts.

I have yet to try out pathfinders in 6th. Illic seems gimmicky in my opinion.

I have had great success with 5/6 man wraith squads in serpents. They usually make it to their target at full strength and be it Cannons or D-scythes they are devastating.

If you are set on walking your wraiths I suggest taking a look at the ForgeWorld Wraithseer. I've played him a few times footslogging up the board with 10 man wraith squads. He can give them FNP (4+) which makes your army of the dead incredibly tough.

Everyone else already said it..... Rangers are weak, run the list as Iyanden.

If you're going to footslog the Wraithseer for FNP is a good idea. You might want to consider a warlock for conceal as well,

The bottom line is that wraith units are expensive; if you're paying for the models, you should spend a couple more points to protect the investment.

znelson wrote:
Everyone else already said it..... Rangers are weak, run the list as Iyanden.

If you're going to footslog the Wraithseer for FNP is a good idea. You might want to consider a warlock for conceal as well,

The bottom line is that wraith units are expensive; if you're paying for the models, you should spend a couple more points to protect the investment.

Warlocks can't be added to wraithsquads anymore.

^^ This is true.

Use spiritseers instead, then get VoT (if using supplement) or conceal and something else (if not using supplement).

Well that Wraithseer just touched a really spongy soft spot in my heart... maybe for tournaments I could replace Illic with the wraithseer and then the pathfinders with some anti-air.

On that note, is there any wraith-oriented anti-air I could use? I could do a crimson hunter, which wouldn't be that bad, but I don't want reapers or aegis because I feel it ruins the tone of my army. What other options are open to me?

As for Illic, I would still like to use him with a big squad of pathfinders in a friendlier game. Is he really that all in out useless? I feel like they could pop behind enemy lines wherever they want, assassinate independent characters, and just generally harass the enemy who now feels like they must focus on them and the advancing tide of wraith units.

Has anyone played against Illic using a squad like this?

Illic is best by himself in a unit, you can place him with the wraith blades giving them shrouded and he can snapfire or if you don't move him (starting him in the front and not moving him while the wraiths move) he can fire normally, and he does have 4 attacks with a power sword!

As for good aa other then a hunter, multiplie wraithlords with duel scatterlasers.

The thing is that I would either use Illic with a ten man pathfinder squad or replace him with the Wraithseer.

I could put Scatter lasers on the Wraithlords... If I gave them scatter lasers then I could fire at a flyer with the lasers and, if I got a 6, then be able to fire at the flyer with my bright lance and count it as twin linked? (on the same note, could I also do that against vehicles?)

Finally, what about the Hemlock Wraithfighter? I know it's been given a lot of flak, and I'm not even sure it can fight other flyers, but what do you guys think about it? And can it fight against other flyers, or no because it has blast weapons?

You are correct the hemloc cannot fire at other fliers

Illic is cheaper then a wraithseer, but if your choosing 1 or the other, the seer is better.

I would recommend duel SL apposed to 1SL/1BL because 4 shots on average don't get 1 hit, so that's why I like 8 shots.

Also hemlock cannot hit any flying model because of blasts, though they can be good vs low LD armies because of their psychic ability.

Ok. I know you're not looking to be uber competitive, but I'll throw my ten cents in...

Illic is awful. He's not bad, he's woes than bad. He's the same points as TWO spiritseers. And they'll give you more every single game. Pathfinders are arguably worse than the Illic tax you have to pay to get access to them. The good thing about rangers is they are a very cheap scoring unit. Pathfinders gain very little, but lose that attractive cheapness. And 10 is the same price almost as 5 Wraithguard in a serpent. Again, so much more effective!

Wraithlords are an OK choice. But only when designed for a specific role. Taking a single scatter laser to twin link a lance is pointless. You're better off with two lances. Option 1 will only ever get you a maximum of 1 lance hit. Option 2 could give you 2. But with twin scatters the could prove very useful antiaircraft.

Foot slogging wraiths can prove risky. I think they're better as dakka wraiths in serpents. And serpents are epically good.

Lastly, the knight. Honestly I believe they are best stock. Heavy wraithcannons are uber good. They don't need the extra 60 point cost. And being jump infantry they're well placed to jump forward into combat. Which they're pretty good at!

I'm guessing he took the sun cannon is for thinning out shooting units that can hurt the wraith blades, heavy wraith cannons cannot do that, also in CC they are OK, they can get bogged down which it bad, another reason the sun cannon is good, kill a bunch of guys so when you do charge you can easily mop up.

I might just use Illic and the pathfinders in only friendly games just to try them out, and I honestly do like the Wraithseer so much I just might need to use him always...

As for competitive games, now I need to know what to equip my wraith constructs and what to do about anti-air. A few friends of mine who play don't have flyers, which is why the Illic list didn't need AA, but if I wanted the list to be competitve then I would obviously need something. I still want it to have the Wraith-ranger feel though.

I could give the wraithlords scatterlasers, but I wanted those brightlances for taking down tanks. I could use the wraithknights wraithcannons for taking down tanks, but I liked that twin linked suncannon for heavy infantry disposal (plus the scattershield, is it worth not taking it?)

Anyway, a wraithseer with a D-Cannon, minus Illic and the Pathfinders, gives me 155 points which is 5 less than I would need for a crimson hunter (if I decided to just pick that up). If I just took the scatter laser on the wraithknight then I would have 195 points to spare. Considering the wraithknight is anti-tank and the wraithlords are anti-flyer, what do I do with my 195 points?

I might really want to add that Crimson Hunter to my current set-up, but it's 5 points over.

Drop the D-cannon from the wraithseer and get a scatter laser or star cannon instead. Save yourself some points as you already have plenty of 12" str 10 shooting from wraithguard. Put some range on that guy so you don't have to be too close.

For anti air the crimson hunter is pretty good. The best place I'd find the points from is the ghost glaives on the Lords. That way you can keep your Lords for anti tank, your Knight for anti infantry and your hunter can be AA. Personally I wouldn't take 20 foot slogging combat wraiths in a competitive list. Unfortunately a lot of armies will find it very very easy to keep out of range at the moment. But there is a chance that might change with the new rule set on route. Those of us who are combat mad are hoping anyway. Perhaps my Khorne army could be dusted off again.

In summary - dropping illic and the pathfinders, and dropping at least one ghost glaive and you have your d cannon wraith seer and a hunter....

Okay here's the list:

HQ
210 Wraithseer w. Eldar Missile Launcher

70 Spiritseer

TROOPS

60 5 Rangers

60 5 Rangers

320 10 Wraithblades w. swords

320 10 Wraithblades w. axes

FAST ATTACK
180 Crimson Hunter Exarch w. bright lances

HEAVY SUPPORT
300 Wraithknight w. suncannon, scattershield, scatter laser

165 Wraithlord w. 2 bright lances, flamer, and ghostglaive

165 Wraithlord w. 2 bright lances, flamer, and ghostglaive

I actually like the missile launcher, it's pinning with works with the rangers and can fill many roles at long range. Question though: does it give me access to flakk missiles as well, allowing my Wraithseer to have skyfire?

Also, since the list isn't the strongest against hordes, I could replace a wraithlord's 2 bright lances with shuriken cannons and give the crimson hunter Marksmen's Eye. Thinking about how the army would fare against footslogging orks, the cannon would dish out more damage than the bright lances while the hunter could try to pick out warbosses with precision hitting starcannons. Thoughts?

I think you are right to be concerned about being outnumbered.

For the cost of the Wraithblades w/ axes you're close to affording a Squad of 5 Guard with D-Scythes in a Wave Serpent. Put a SL and SC on the serpent.

This will help immensely with crowd control.

I would drop your WK's upgrades; with the extra points you can swap a WL for another WK. 2 WKs with stock gear will handle any armor you encounter.

The Flakk Missles for the Eldar Missile Launcher are always an upgrade, so I don't presume all opponents will be happy to let you use them.

I generally protest EMLs, but the cost for the upgrade on the Wraithseer is atually reasonable. On every other Eldar model it;s 3x a SL or BL,

My more radical advice would be to drop the Crimson Hunter and the rangers. Replace with 5 DAs in a Serpent (also SL/SC); this will leave you some extra points to cover the WG w/ Scythes in Serpent recommended earlier. Being outnumbered is a problem which is compounded by a lack of mobility.

2 Serpents with SL/SC will take care of a flier or two if you use the shield. If you opponent has more fliers than the serpents can handle, it's likely that they would destroy the hunter before it could finish it's work. Also at AV10, the Hunter is very vulnerable to MultiLasers, Assault Cannons, Auto Cannons and all other Mid Str weapons. A couple lucky rolls by your opponent and your anti air is gone.

Having the extra wave serpent will probably prove useful as well. Wraithguard are slow, and a ride for the WBs once the sqaud has suffered some casualties may be invaluable.

Leaving only the 10 WBs on foot, you'll also ensure that if your opponent wants to shoot at Wraith models, they'll have FNP.

znelson wrote:
I think you are right to be concerned about being outnumbered.

For the cost of the Wraithblades w/ axes you're close to affording a Squad of 5 Guard with D-Scythes in a Wave Serpent. Put a SL and SC on the serpent.

This will help immensely with crowd control.

I would drop your WK's upgrades; with the extra points you can swap a WL for another WK. 2 WKs with stock gear will handle any armor you encounter.

The Flakk Missles for the Eldar Missile Launcher are always an upgrade, so I don't presume all opponents will be happy to let you use them.

I generally protest EMLs, but the cost for the upgrade on the Wraithseer is atually reasonable. On every other Eldar model it;s 3x a SL or BL,

My more radical advice would be to drop the Crimson Hunter and the rangers. Replace with 5 DAs in a Serpent (also SL/SC); this will leave you some extra points to cover the WG w/ Scythes in Serpent recommended earlier. Being outnumbered is a problem which is compounded by a lack of mobility.

2 Serpents with SL/SC will take care of a flier or two if you use the shield. If you opponent has more fliers than the serpents can handle, it's likely that they would destroy the hunter before it could finish it's work. Also at AV10, the Hunter is very vulnerable to MultiLasers, Assault Cannons, Auto Cannons and all other Mid Str weapons. A couple lucky rolls by your opponent and your anti air is gone.

Having the extra wave serpent will probably prove useful as well. Wraithguard are slow, and a ride for the WBs once the sqaud has suffered some casualties may be invaluable.

Leaving only the 10 WBs on foot, you'll also ensure that if your opponent wants to shoot at Wraith models, they'll have FNP.

This is good

I don't want any vehicles, other than the possible hunter, although I may consider swapping out some of the wraithblades for wraithguard, and I also don't any aspect warriors. The point was to have a list that was only wraith and ranger units, and I'm not going to compromise the fluff for to make it more competitive, except for the hunter because, hell, that that be the bodyguard of the ship the rangers fly around in.

Knowing that it is going to be a footdar army with only wraith units and rangers doesn't leave me many options except for swaping out weapons and doing guard/blade substitutions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also wrote up an aspect warrior list with many of the same elements, only the wraithblades and HQ choices have been changed really. This list comes out to 1990, I would need to figure out what to spend those 10 points on, or what to take away to make it 1850.

HQ
100 Farseer

200 Jain Zar

TROOPS

60 5 Rangers

60 5 Rangers

130 10 Dire Avengers

130 Wave Serpent w. scatter laser, shuriken cannon

130 10 Dire Avengers

130 Wave Serpent w. scatter laser, shuriken cannon

ELITE
150 10 Howling Banshees (running)

170 10 Striking Scorpions (infiltrating)

FAST ATTACK
160 Crimson Hunter w. bright lances

HEAVY SUPPORT
240 Wraithknight w. wraithcannons

165 Wraithlord w. 2 scatter lasers, flamer, and ghostglaive

165 Wraithlord w. 2 scatter lasers, flamer, and ghostglaive

I also wouldn't be averse to replacing the Farseer with Asurmen or Karandras,

Howling banshees and there leader are a worse choice then rangers and there leader

I disagree highly with ninja on his statement, Banshees SUCK ALL KINDS OF SWAMP WATER, jain zar isn't to bad in a unit like harlequins or storm guardians because of her many attacks at Ap2 plus her debuffs to I and WS.

As for the list I only recommend you drop the banshees for a unit of 10 harlequins with troupe master, shadow seer, and 9 harlequins kisses and 2 fusion pistols, that's almost 300pts and when it gets into CC will murder/rolfstomp anything.

Steer clear of aspect warriors if you're not keen. There's nothing wrong with sticking to your fluff.

I do think wraith scythes are one of the ghost warriors nicest units. They're awesome. I don't leave home without them.

 Arbiter wrote:
I disagree highly with ninja on his statement, Banshees SUCK ALL KINDS OF SWAMP WATER, jain zar isn't to bad in a unit like harlequins or storm guardians because of her many attacks at Ap2 plus her debuffs to I and WS.

As for the list I only recommend you drop the banshees for a unit of 10 harlequins with troupe master, shadow seer, and 9 harlequins kisses and 2 fusion pistols, that's almost 300pts and when it gets into CC will murder/rolfstomp anything.

Jain zars fine, but with a differnet CC unit. As he was doing it, jain jar was with her banshees. Which is a worse trade off than even the pathfinders and illic

Just a really fun idea that I know you will all say is terrible, but would it be possible to remove the farseer and 1 ranger squad and put Illic with the Banshees and Jain? I know that is like, all the worst things put together (so why would the enemy shoot at it?), but would it also be a group that could move run an additional 4 inches each turn and also have a +3 to cover saves? Kinda sounds like it would survive to the enemy. I could then either use Illic's powersword in combat or just break him off to start firing pop-shots and dangerous suspects.


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Use the remaining 30 points for holo-fields, because, you know.

Well, you can do that by all means, but when you say "in this unit of banshees there is a beastly CC monster and a CC monster wanna be" you will find that unit will either be avoided or shoot to pieces, really, if you want a good CC unit that is able to survive well and do CC very well harlequins are your best bet.

Also do note putting illic in there completely ruins the banshees extra run move, as the unit must be entirely composed of models with that rule for it to work.

Alright, so no Illic ever. Anyway, I think I've settled on my original Wraithlist. The Aspect one was just an idea, but seriously, thanks for all the help and suggestions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, I made a slight adjustment to the aspect list, without the howling banshees. It's 1850. Tell me what you think.

HQ
220 Asurmen

230 Karandras

TROOPS

130 10 Dire Avengers w. exarch (power weapon and shimmershield)

155 Wave Serpent w. scatter laser, shuriken cannon, and holofields

130 10 Dire Avengers

155 Wave Serpent w. scatter laser, shuriken cannon, and holofields

130 10 Dire Avengers

155 Wave Serpent w. scatter laser, shuriken cannon, and holofields

ELITE

170 10 Striking Scorpions

FAST ATTACK
160 Crimson Hunter w. bright lances

215 10 Swooping Hawks w. exarch (sunrifle, power weapon, hit & run, night vision)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could also replace the night vision and sunrifle to make the crimson hunter an exarch.

Looks good, though I would actually take the 3rd serpent for the scorpions (they don't need to ride in it) and take 2 units of 5 avengers for home objective camping.