Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Heya, just a quick question or two about Achilles.

1) I'm learning what all the order symbols mean, does Achilles have Frenzy?

and the main attraction

2) Does Achilles need to make Guts rolls? It's seems strange that almost everything in the ALEPH army has some way of getting out of Guts rolls, but it doesn't appear that Achilles does aside from his high WIP.
Am I reading this correctly?

Thanks for the help!

1. Yes
2. As far as I know, yes. He's a badass, but a rocket to the chest will still give him pause.

I see, thank you.

I just think it's weird that nearly EVERYTHING has some rank in Valor except for him.

But the lack of it is supposed to represent the whole Achilles heel thing? The one shot that he fails his Guts rolls against.

He actually does have valour. He has MA4, which includes MA2, which gives valour.

Yup.

He doesn't need V: courage when he has MA4, which also GIVES him the benefit of V:courage - through MA2.

Well there you go.

Even more reason I'm glad my Aleph playing friend doesn't field him.

The achilles heel thing is that he can be one-shooted by Paris' arrow (aka ariadna tankhunter w/autocannon).

I had that happen to him last time I used Mr fabulous-hair.

First dice roll of the game. Across the table. Achilles was in cover. With ODD. So -9 to hit. Spitfire was out of range, and tankhunter had camo and cover anyway - so I elected to dodge rather than auto fail a shot (out of range).

Opponent rolls double crit and I failed the remaining 4 saves.
Achilles dead, first shot of the game.

Ah, I totally forgot about Martial Arts 2! Thanks again guys!

Once again this forum proves to be INSANELY helpful.

Just be glad none of you have to play against a guy who fields spitfire achillies, a marut and an asura in the same 300pt list... Even with lots more orders its like banging your head on a brick wall.

How many orders can you possibly get in that list? Between the tree of them you've eaten up about 270-280 haven't you?

Yeah. Bare minimum for that is Spitfire Achilles, Marut Lt and Multi Asura (although the Spitfire Asura is cheaper, that would be 7 SWC in the list), for 275.

That leaves room for no more than four remaining orders (three netrods and an SMG Thorakites). The way to deal with that kind of list would be to hunt the Netrods.
An EVO supported hacker, some ADHLs or E/M ammo could also have a bit of a field day. (In theory, he could just about have both a hacker and an engineer, if the Asura were a hacker and the Thorakites was an engineer*, but that would leave no points for any Netrods). Monofilament mines would also be hilarious.
*At which point, get into a firefight with the Thorakites. Either he loses his engineer, or his engineer goes frenzied and starts running up the table.

'I'm an Engineer! Charge!'

 MarcoSkoll wrote:
Yeah. Bare minimum for that is Spitfire Achilles, Marut Lt and Multi Asura (although the Spitfire Asura is cheaper, that would be 7 SWC in the list), for 275.

Could always be playing 400 pts.

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:
Could always be playing 400 pts.

...

 vodo40k wrote:
Just be glad none of you have to play against a guy who fields spitfire achillies, a marut and an asura in the same 300pt list.

Emphasis mine.

I need to stop reading threads, bottom to top...

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:
I need to stop reading threads, bottom to top...

Don't worry about it, you must play Haqqislam or something.

 MarcoSkoll wrote:
Yeah. Bare minimum for that is Spitfire Achilles, Marut Lt and Multi Asura (although the Spitfire Asura is cheaper, that would be 7 SWC in the list), for 275.

That leaves room for no more than four remaining orders (three netrods and an SMG Thorakites). The way to deal with that kind of list would be to hunt the Netrods.
An EVO supported hacker, some ADHLs or E/M ammo could also have a bit of a field day. (In theory, he could just about have both a hacker and an engineer, if the Asura were a hacker and the Thorakites was an engineer*, but that would leave no points for any Netrods). Monofilament mines would also be hilarious.
*At which point, get into a firefight with the Thorakites. Either he loses his engineer, or his engineer goes frenzied and starts running up the table.

I play Military Orders/Neoterrans so my options for most of the things you mentioned is unfortunately quite limited (Pan-O hackers are pretty poor). I'm thinking ill invest in some auxillia, achillies dont like no heavy flamethrowers...

Auxbots are a no-brainer with those two sectorials. Four of them, in fact - do it right

Also, having a hacker if only defensively doesn't cost the world, and bringing an EVO MUL (which is pretty useful on its own!) is often a good idea as well (if only for defensive purposes).

I've posessed a Marut more than once - and boy is that fun if it works
Also, having two HI and a TAG, and not much else, he's extremely vulnerable to repeaters hiding just around corners. Every time he moves past you get to try to IMM him, and it only needs to work once. Having a bunch of cheap repeater REM's (good chearleaders anyway!) works; taking a peacemaker is a straight-up twofer (has an auxbot, too!), and so on.
Keep in mind, having him waste orders avoiding repeaters kills that list. Getting hacked even once, too.
Oh, and Mono-mine sierras are only 34/1 and have both mono mines and a repeater.

If you really want to mess up his day, a well-stocked NCA list is pretty well-suited to doing so. Just add an aquila or two and you're set.

And if that kind of bull$&@( keeps coming up in your meta, getting de fersen and a bunch of shiny REMs (yes, again!) should be priority no. 1, really.

Also, don't forget fusilier links. No, they don't have MSV. They can, however, have several missile launchers on burst two each and still not be all that expensive. You should see the look on your opponent's face when you deploy two ML's and an HMG in one link - five man link, only 91/3 and you now get to bring bipandra as a spare body, just to restore your five man link. You can bring those six, an engineer, a TAG and one or two other funny things for a 9-10 order group at 300pts.

Even without msv it's something he'll soon learn to loathe

 Bolognesus wrote:
bringing an EVO MUL (which is pretty useful on its own!) is often a good idea as well (if only for defensive purposes).

EVOs aren't great defensive pieces. The only EVO program that works in ARO is the ability to jam FO marks - which, while it's fantastically useful if some git is trying to GML you, often makes it no more useful than a regular repeater outside of the active turn.

Although, I suppose you could be going by the "the best defence is a good offence" mantra. And it is potentially a very good offence.

It's infinity - passive defense won't do you much good. Anyway, it's still a repeater in reactive; moving it forward in active is (much!) more useful, and some anti-GML defence is worth having IMO. I'll agree it depends on meta, but that alone makes it worth it for me (to tournaments, anyway).

I went up against the same list with hacker/repeater heavy list. Failed every single hacking role and got butchered in CC, so that went well.

Poor dice will kill the best of battle plans