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Hi,

I apologize if I am posting in the wrong forum.

I'm starting a Necron army (which will in fact be my first 40K army) and am going for the Shambling Zombie Horde feel, mainly because I like Shambling Zombie Hordes.

It seems pretty straightforward -- lots of Warriors with lords with Resurrection Orbs backed up by Ghost Arks shambling unstoppably toward the enemy.

In keeping with the zombie feel, I also want to use... Flayed Ones.

Now I realize by lurking on this forum and others that these units are generally considered to be crap. I'm not sure exactly why -- they're as durable as Necron warriors (= very durable) and can Deep Strike and have loads of attacks. Presumably because they can't assault and Deep Strike in the same turn?

Anyway I am trying to figure out how to use them. Perhaps I have this idea from playting the old DOW games, but it seems to me that they are intended to be Deep Struck _behind_ enemy troops, to keep them from moving backward out of the way of the Shambling Zombie Horde. Does this seem viable?

If your suggestion is "don't use Flayed Ones," there is no need to post.

Thank you!

It is their point cost. Warriors cost about the same and have a shooting attack. The flayed also can't hold objectives. Plus Night Scythes for 100 pts are one of the best units in the game. The Flayed also can never have any type AP melee attack so they don't well vs MCs or 2+. Warriors can also glance high AV targets.

I think they could work just not in a super competitive list. I would prob take Imotekh b/c you can blood scarab a unit and no flayed one will scatter if you DS near that unit. It would be good to pick off a unit if it deploys away from the opp. main force.

I would try to DS into or near terrain and then run them in b/c 4+ is easy to get thru.

Try running them in the dark harvest list in IA12 where they're both troops (so they can score and be massed in larger numbers), and can get dirt cheap flensing scarabs to get shred where they go from meh to vicious in assault.

<deleted for redundancy>

Just doing the math, it seems like they would be pretty good in assault.

Vs. a similarly priced unit (tactical marines), assuming they get the charge (= 4 attacks).

10 flayed ones vs. 10 bolter marines

Overwatch from the marines = 1/6 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/24 x 20 = let's say one "dead" flayed one.

Nine hit the marines. Marines have higher init, so they go first.

1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8 x 10 = about 1 "dead' flayed one, so 8 are left.

Flayed ones get 4 attacks each, so 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 1/12 x 32 = 2 and a half dead marines.

And then one of the flayed ones probably gets back up.

So the flayed ones come out on top.

Am I missing something? (Outside of the shooting that the flayed ones will take walking up to the marines of course. )

Flayed ones are only good in dark harvest lists. They seem to be actually pretty good in a dark harvest list. Their only problem is that they're essentially footslogging marines as far as price and durability (even though RP helps).

You NEED to take flayed ones as dark harvest flayed ones for free rending and counting as troops.

They should really have Fear. Though I realize that that doesn't kick in often.

<deleted, caveat noted>

Alcibiades wrote:

Just doing the math, it seems like they would be pretty good in assault.

Vs. a similarly priced unit (tactical marines), assuming they get the charge (= 4 attacks).

10 flayed ones vs. 10 bolter marines

Overwatch from the marines = 1/6 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/24 x 20 = let's say one "dead" flayed one.

Nine hit the marines. Marines have higher init, so they go first.

1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8 x 10 = about 1 "dead' flayed one, so 8 are left.

Flayed ones get 4 attacks each, so 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 1/12 x 32 = 2 and a half dead marines.

And then one of the flayed ones probably gets back up.

So the flayed ones come out on top.

Am I missing something? (Outside of the shooting that the flayed ones will take walking up to the marines of course. )

The problem is foot-slogging and getting shot first without any of the massive speed that wraiths have (or that tasty invulnerable save).

In the elites slot they have Canoptek Stalkers, which are very tough and speedy monstrous creatures, Triarch Stalkers who have a lot of utility thanks to their anti-vehicle ability and offerings of free twinlinking, C'tan Shards who while not super-competetive have some pretty lulzy abilities, and Deathmarks who are amazing assassins, all competing for your attention.

They really need the dark harvest list where you can spam them as troops and get shred for them.

Alcibiades wrote:


Now I realize by lurking on this forum and others that these units are generally considered to be crap. I'm not sure exactly why -- they're as durable as Necron warriors (= very durable) and can Deep Strike and have loads of attacks. Presumably because they can't assault and Deep Strike in the same turn?

When comparing Flayed Ones with Warriors there are few major differences:
- Firstly, Ones are Elite choice, Warriors are troop choice. In current edition this makes slight difference because they cost same amount of points.
- Warriors are much much more protean. They are good versus infantry, tanks, and in some cases against MCs, while Ones are only semi good against infantry due to their low initiative and medium armor, if they can even get to CC

Flayed Ones are harassment unit, throw out 5 strong unit, DS them next to some nasty Devastator unit lurking back and do as much damage as you can. This is the only way that works in my opinion. Also you can try to mess with Stormlord and Nanoscarabs and DP bigger units but this will work only if they hit to right unit and your opponent dont know how to counter it. I think you could try throw 20 strong unit, buff it with D lord with resorb and of course preferred enemy he gives + stormlord or solar pulse to give them little chance for survival

I dont know man, use creativity! Almost every unit can work with right tactic.

What do people think of my "deep strike them behind enemy units to keep them from moving out of 24" range" idea?

Alcibiades wrote:
What do people think of my "deep strike them behind enemy units to keep them from moving out of 24" range" idea?

It would work if your opponent didn't know how to defend against the possibility of a deep strike.

I mean, if you deep strike anything behind enemy lines, your forcing your opponent to respond. Likely, what will happen is there gonna get wiped out to a man right after they deep strike. You then will have successfully diverted some fire from your main force, at least.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record; but seriously just go and buy IA12 and run them in the Dark harvest list. It is exactly what you are looking for, I don't know why you're ignoring this advice.

Fellstrom wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:


Now I realize by lurking on this forum and others that these units are generally considered to be crap. I'm not sure exactly why -- they're as durable as Necron warriors (= very durable) and can Deep Strike and have loads of attacks. Presumably because they can't assault and Deep Strike in the same turn?

When comparing Flayed Ones with Warriors there are few major differences:
- Firstly, Ones are Elite choice, Warriors are troop choice. In current edition this makes slight difference because they cost same amount of points.
- Warriors are much much more protean. They are good versus infantry, tanks, and in some cases against MCs, while Ones are only semi good against infantry due to their low initiative and medium armor, if they can even get to CC

Flayed Ones are harassment unit, throw out 5 strong unit, DS them next to some nasty Devastator unit lurking back and do as much damage as you can. This is the only way that works in my opinion. Also you can try to mess with Stormlord and Nanoscarabs and DP bigger units but this will work only if they hit to right unit and your opponent dont know how to counter it. I think you could try throw 20 strong unit, buff it with D lord with resorb and of course preferred enemy he gives + stormlord or solar pulse to give them little chance for survival

I dont know man, use creativity! Almost every unit can work with right tactic.

Make Pyrovores triumph against an Armored Battle Group with no infantry.

 Kain wrote:
I'm starting to sound like a broken record; but seriously just go and buy IA12 and run them in the Dark harvest list. It is exactly what you are looking for, I don't know why you're ignoring this advice.

I'm not ignoring it; I just haven't mentioned it, as it's my understanding that a lot of people don't allow forge world lists. Thanks.

The best flayed ones really are the IA12 ones, with a one-time shred, a 20-strong team that infiltrated into point-blank range just forces SO much attention that the main assault force (wraith, Dlords, scarabs, spyders) can march in with far less trouble, and if you had 2 such teams then the main attackers will be practically unchallenged.

So what if they never get into assault? they are there to THREATEN an assault, not to land one. and if the opponent "plays smart" and ignores them while gunning for the heavy lifters, then the horde just blends up his troops with absurd number of attacks.

Alcibiades wrote:

 Kain wrote:
I'm starting to sound like a broken record; but seriously just go and buy IA12 and run them in the Dark harvest list. It is exactly what you are looking for, I don't know why you're ignoring this advice.

I'm not ignoring it; I just haven't mentioned it, as it's my understanding that a lot of people don't allow forge world lists. Thanks.

Let your friends look over it and study it.

It's very fair overall and there's definite downsides to taking the dark harvest list compared to Codex Necrons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
The best flayed ones really are the IA12 ones, with a one-time shred, a 20-strong team that infiltrated into point-blank range just forces SO much attention that the main assault force (wraith, Dlords, scarabs, spyders) can march in with far less trouble, and if you had 2 such teams then the main attackers will be practically unchallenged.

So what if they never get into assault? they are there to THREATEN an assault, not to land one. and if the opponent "plays smart" and ignores them while gunning for the heavy lifters, then the horde just blends up his troops with absurd number of attacks.

I see nothing that indicates that Flensing scarabs go away after one use.

Is an army that concentrates on masses of Necron Warriors (aka a Shambling Zombie Horde) with minimum or no vehicles viable?

Alcibiades wrote:
Is an army that concentrates on masses of Necron Warriors (aka a Shambling Zombie Horde) with minimum or no vehicles viable?

You'll need res-orbs, get as many as you can.

Alcibiades wrote:
Is an army that concentrates on masses of Necron Warriors (aka a Shambling Zombie Horde) with minimum or no vehicles viable?

Yes indeed...and if you are open to Apocalypse rules, there is an Infinite Phalanx formation (who knows, these Apoc formations might become legal in 7th) that improves the RP roll progressively with the more Warriors you have (but can't be improved by a Res Orb)

Alcibiades wrote:

Just doing the math, it seems like they would be pretty good in assault.

Vs. a similarly priced unit (tactical marines), assuming they get the charge (= 4 attacks).

10 flayed ones vs. 10 bolter marines

Overwatch from the marines = 1/6 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/24 x 20 = let's say one "dead" flayed one.

Nine hit the marines. Marines have higher init, so they go first.

1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8 x 10 = about 1 "dead' flayed one, so 8 are left.

Flayed ones get 4 attacks each, so 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 1/12 x 32 = 2 and a half dead marines.

And then one of the flayed ones probably gets back up.

So the flayed ones come out on top.

Am I missing something? (Outside of the shooting that the flayed ones will take walking up to the marines of course. )

Round 2 the flayed ones get counter assaulted by another tac squad and an IC, lose combat resolution, break, and get run down.

Next turn a dlord and wraiths assault the counter assaulting marine unit, the marines break, and get away from combat due to their superior initiative, or fearless kicks in with ATSNKF.

Large units of flayed ones just don't work because they easily give up combat resolution with T4 4+ armor and lack fearless.

I do however believe small units of 5 can be useful when outflanking or hiding behind los blocking terrain. They can bully inexpensive backfield scoring units or some potentially expensive heavy support units.

 Kain wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
The best flayed ones really are the IA12 ones, with a one-time shred, a 20-strong team that infiltrated into point-blank range just forces SO much attention that the main assault force (wraith, Dlords, scarabs, spyders) can march in with far less trouble, and if you had 2 such teams then the main attackers will be practically unchallenged.

So what if they never get into assault? they are there to THREATEN an assault, not to land one. and if the opponent "plays smart" and ignores them while gunning for the heavy lifters, then the horde just blends up his troops with absurd number of attacks.

I see nothing that indicates that Flensing scarabs go away after one use.

In the equipment rules, it only works in the first round of assault the unit is in during the game, not only one-use, you dont get to choose when.
Still a great upgrade for larger squads.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
The best flayed ones really are the IA12 ones, with a one-time shred, a 20-strong team that infiltrated into point-blank range just forces SO much attention that the main assault force (wraith, Dlords, scarabs, spyders) can march in with far less trouble, and if you had 2 such teams then the main attackers will be practically unchallenged.

So what if they never get into assault? they are there to THREATEN an assault, not to land one. and if the opponent "plays smart" and ignores them while gunning for the heavy lifters, then the horde just blends up his troops with absurd number of attacks.

I see nothing that indicates that Flensing scarabs go away after one use.

In the equipment rules, it only works in the first round of assault the unit is in during the game, not only one-use, you dont get to choose when.
Still a great upgrade for larger squads.

That means I've been using them wrong for years hahah.

 Kain wrote:

Fellstrom wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:


Now I realize by lurking on this forum and others that these units are generally considered to be crap. I'm not sure exactly why -- they're as durable as Necron warriors (= very durable) and can Deep Strike and have loads of attacks. Presumably because they can't assault and Deep Strike in the same turn?

When comparing Flayed Ones with Warriors there are few major differences:
- Firstly, Ones are Elite choice, Warriors are troop choice. In current edition this makes slight difference because they cost same amount of points.
- Warriors are much much more protean. They are good versus infantry, tanks, and in some cases against MCs, while Ones are only semi good against infantry due to their low initiative and medium armor, if they can even get to CC

Flayed Ones are harassment unit, throw out 5 strong unit, DS them next to some nasty Devastator unit lurking back and do as much damage as you can. This is the only way that works in my opinion. Also you can try to mess with Stormlord and Nanoscarabs and DP bigger units but this will work only if they hit to right unit and your opponent dont know how to counter it. I think you could try throw 20 strong unit, buff it with D lord with resorb and of course preferred enemy he gives + stormlord or solar pulse to give them little chance for survival

I dont know man, use creativity! Almost every unit can work with right tactic.

Make Pyrovores triumph against an Armored Battle Group with no infantry.

Sliced piece of cake

Thanks for your advice everyone.