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I recently started playing MtG, just with friends and family. I hear this term "casual" tossed around and I wonder exactly what folks mean by it.

-Is it a sort of gentleman's agreement that our decks aren't too tuned up?
-Is it an acknowledgment that our cards don't necessarily meet the criteria for "Standard", but would be absolutely hopeless against decks made for "Modern" or "Vintage".
-Is it simply that we don't play in many tournaments?
-Or something else?

The truth is that I've used the term to describe myself and my wife, but what it describes in us (possibly misusing the term) is two people who buy packs open them and play with the cards we find, rather than buying cards separately to build a deck.

What does "Casual" mean?

Pretty much everything you mentioned. If you aren't tuning your decks for a very competitive environment you're more than likely playing casually. It's not a slur, but just a description for players who like to have a more relaxed approach to magic.

It's people who play what they want, instead of net decking (Net Decking being those who go on the internet, look up whatever the pros used, and copy that. Hate Standard.....)

 Slarg232 wrote:
It's people who play what they want, instead of net decking (Net Decking being those who go on the internet, look up whatever the pros used, and copy that. Hate Standard.....)

It's all well and good to go rogue, but if there's a netdeck that does the same thing yours does, but better... Why aren't you usin the netdeck? Net lists are merely a collection of cards that perform consistently well together. Before you go rogue you need to ask yourself, is there a deck out there that performs better than this deck? Is this the optimum build for this deck? Why hasn't anyone tried this deck before? There is nothing wrong with netlisting. This discussion might be better for a new thread, the other mtg thread, or pm if you want to continue discussing it.

Back on topic, I forgot to mention formats like Archenemy, Commander, and Planeshift(I think that's what it's called) are all casual formats. If you aren't preparing for a tournament or event(or in one), more than likely you're a casual player.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

It's all well and good to go rogue, but if there's a netdeck that does the same thing yours does, but better... Why aren't you using the netdeck? Net lists are merely a collection of cards that perform consistently well together. Before you go rogue you need to ask yourself, is there a deck out there that performs better than this deck? Is this the optimum build for this deck? Why hasn't anyone tried this deck before? There is nothing wrong with netlisting. This discussion might be better for a new thread, the other mtg thread, or pm if you want to continue discussing it.

I think what they were getting at is that if you are putting forth the effort to net-deck and acquire the cards individually, then you might be a small step or two up from a casual player. Sounds like it's roughly comparable to the 40k player who uses a highly tuned Netlist. Whether or not they play in tournaments, players of such an army are not often referred to as "casual".

No need to split the thread, It's just the kind of thing I was wondering about.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Back on topic, I forgot to mention formats like Archenemy, Commander, and Planeshift(I think that's what it's called) are all casual formats. If you aren't preparing for a tournament or event(or in one), more than likely you're a casual player.

Good Point. I think the official WotC definition of "Casual Format" is any format outside of their specifically noted tournament formats. It's one good definition, but I hear folks using casual player in ways that don't quite fit that use.

You can play Standard, Modern, or even Vintage casually- some players just use those formats as ways to break down their collections into more manageable chunks. For instance, my Standard collection is a very, very small part of my total collection, which makes sorting through that smaller pile of cards a lot easier than say sorting through my Modern legal cards.

What ways are you hearing casual that seem out of the norm?

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
It's people who play what they want, instead of net decking (Net Decking being those who go on the internet, look up whatever the pros used, and copy that. Hate Standard.....)

It's all well and good to go rogue, but if there's a netdeck that does the same thing yours does, but better... Why aren't you usin the netdeck? Net lists are merely a collection of cards that perform consistently well together. Before you go rogue you need to ask yourself, is there a deck out there that performs better than this deck? Is this the optimum build for this deck? Why hasn't anyone tried this deck before? There is nothing wrong with netlisting. This discussion might be better for a new thread, the other mtg thread, or pm if you want to continue discussing it.

Back in my MtG days. I'd often build decks around certain theme. For example, I had Thallid decks or Orc/Goblin/Ogre decks etc. They often had suboptimal cards selected merely because of their association with a theme, but I always felt it was more fun that way.

Problem was the difficulty of finding level opponents. They were too weak to go against Tournament decks and few people were interested in playing any other format. In casual games, I always felt that 2vs2 team game was the most fun casual format, but it was difficult to gather up 4 like-minded players.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
It's people who play what they want, instead of net decking (Net Decking being those who go on the internet, look up whatever the pros used, and copy that. Hate Standard.....)

It's all well and good to go rogue, but if there's a netdeck that does the same thing yours does, but better... Why aren't you usin the netdeck? Net lists are merely a collection of cards that perform consistently well together. Before you go rogue you need to ask yourself, is there a deck out there that performs better than this deck? Is this the optimum build for this deck? Why hasn't anyone tried this deck before? There is nothing wrong with netlisting. This discussion might be better for a new thread, the other mtg thread, or pm if you want to continue discussing it.

Back on topic, I forgot to mention formats like Archenemy, Commander, and Planeshift(I think that's what it's called) are all casual formats. If you aren't preparing for a tournament or event(or in one), more than likely you're a casual player.

What is the point of playing a hobby, if all you are going to do is just turn it into a game of Math and Numbers? What is the point of playing a highly customizable game if all you are going to do is just copy what everyone else is doing?

If you are playing for thousands of dollars (like the pros), I can see you net decking and am fine with it (not that me being fine with it really matters in the first place). But as a counter argument, the Pros are the ones actually coming up with the decks and figuring out how the cards work, so they CAN'T net deck

I'm just saying, it's a grey area between "Casual" and "Pro", and in that area we have "Try Hard". You are not a Pro, stop acting like one (Not you you, you in general).

Mind you, I hate standard simply because of the fact that you spend $8 on a card only for it to go down to $2 post rotation. People say it's an "ever evolving" format, but every format is; the more cards added, the more things change.

 Slarg232 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
It's people who play what they want, instead of net decking (Net Decking being those who go on the internet, look up whatever the pros used, and copy that. Hate Standard.....)

It's all well and good to go rogue, but if there's a netdeck that does the same thing yours does, but better... Why aren't you usin the netdeck? Net lists are merely a collection of cards that perform consistently well together. Before you go rogue you need to ask yourself, is there a deck out there that performs better than this deck? Is this the optimum build for this deck? Why hasn't anyone tried this deck before? There is nothing wrong with netlisting. This discussion might be better for a new thread, the other mtg thread, or pm if you want to continue discussing it.

Back on topic, I forgot to mention formats like Archenemy, Commander, and Planeshift(I think that's what it's called) are all casual formats. If you aren't preparing for a tournament or event(or in one), more than likely you're a casual player.

What is the point of playing a hobby, if all you are going to do is just turn it into a game of Math and Numbers? What is the point of playing a highly customizable game if all you are going to do is just copy what everyone else is doing?

If you are playing for thousands of dollars (like the pros), I can see you net decking and am fine with it (not that me being fine with it really matters in the first place). But as a counter argument, the Pros are the ones actually coming up with the decks and figuring out how the cards work, so they CAN'T net deck

I'm just saying, it's a grey area between "Casual" and "Pro", and in that area we have "Try Hard". You are not a Pro, stop acting like one (Not you you, you in general).

Mind you, I hate standard simply because of the fact that you spend $8 on a card only for it to go down to $2 post rotation. People say it's an "ever evolving" format, but every format is; the more cards added, the more things change.

Some enjoy the fiddly nature of constantly tweaking a deck. Lots of people enjoy number-crunching as well. It's a hobby to them, and one they enjoy. Different strokes for different folks.

As an aside, the "pros" commonly use whatever they think will work best for an upcoming tournament, which is usually another's netdeck. Pros don't necessarily come up with all the decks, or we would never see any new blood at the top levels. Pros are just good at the game. They can play well with just about anything.

I like Modern for a competitive edge myself. Prices don't fluctuate as much, and I don't have to get all these awesome new standard cards when they come out. I just have to wait for the set to rotate out and pick up what I like. Other than exorbitant prices for certain cards, it's a fun competitive format.

Agreed on Modern, I have a Mono-Blue Illusion Beatdown and a R/B Madness Deck. I like it just because there are so many more options, instead of seeing the same four decks all the time.


However, I will admit it was hilarious to be the ONLY mono red Burn guy in an entire FNM of Maze's End. A Skullcrack for you, and a Skullcrack for you, EVERYBODY GETS A SKULLCRACK!

I find the biggest problem in my group of MtG friends is that too many of them tool up their decks.

Personally, I played Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh and MtG, I've always obeyed the rules that I can buy starter sets, fat packs, core decks and boosters to build my deck as it keeps it fun and interesting, however 2-3 of my group basically linger on the internet for the most powerful flavour of the month or the most horrible combo they can pull off and then go out and buy the individual cards to make it.

If they aren't doing this they are hunting around for specific cards to buy individually to make their decks stronger.

I know this may seem petty but for me it defeats a lot of the fun, as they are buying specific cards they don't even trade, even if you have a card they need it becomes about money.

Plus it takes away from the fun/casual games I enjoy as I'm not an overly competitive player and where I live there are no formal tournaments or the like, just me and a small group of friends.

Well, you know, your friends want to advance and get better at the game instead of doing the same, rinse and repeat that you like to do.

And in the long run, buying singles is cheaper than buying packs... It's a tough economy, you can't blame them for doing it.

It's an Arms race and it sounds like you don't want to compete anymore.

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Well, you know, your friends want to advance and get better at the game instead of doing the same, rinse and repeat that you like to do.

And in the long run, buying singles is cheaper than buying packs... It's a tough economy, you can't blame them for doing it.

It's an Arms race and it sounds like you don't want to compete anymore.

I wouldn't say "rinse and repeat" as he obviously want's to continue to buy cards to improve his deck. It's just that he -and many folks I would suspect- are turned off by the "arms race".

That's the trick for any game that is customizable and where the various elements are available separately (CCG's, Tabletop wargames, etc). How does one enjoy the hobby playing games without being drawn into the constant arms race, or being taken down the specific paths that the current meta suggests are the way to stay competitive? I don't have any solutions other than choosing like-minded players.

 Eilif wrote:

 PlaguelordHobbyServices wrote:
Well, you know, your friends want to advance and get better at the game instead of doing the same, rinse and repeat that you like to do.

And in the long run, buying singles is cheaper than buying packs... It's a tough economy, you can't blame them for doing it.

It's an Arms race and it sounds like you don't want to compete anymore.

I wouldn't say "rinse and repeat" as he obviously want's to continue to buy cards to improve his deck. It's just that he -and many folks I would suspect- are turned off by the "arms race".

That's the trick for any game that is customizable and where the various elements are available separately (CCG's, Tabletop wargames, etc). How does one enjoy the hobby playing games without being drawn into the constant arms race, or being taken down the specific paths that the current meta suggests are the way to stay competitive? I don't have any solutions other than choosing like-minded players.

The solution is pretty simple actually, especially if you only have a small group of friends to play with:start a league. Everyone buys that same amount of packs- never more, never less. You can only trade within the group. It keeps everyone on equal footing. Make a day a draft day where everyone goes out to buy three packs to draft.

Draft *would* be a pretty good solution, and it just so happens that in two weeks the Draft Matters set is coming out.


I would talk to your friends about giving it a try, you guys may find a new game mode you like.

Also, Conspiracy has Exploration, Path to Exile, Fact or Fiction, Brainstorm, and a BUNCH of really good new legendaries. If they really want to get good cards, there are some of the best in conspiracy.

Casual mfg means you take what you like without trying to facesmash your friend.

Competitive decks are rarely themed or fluffy. If anything they are aggressively built to maximize synergy and combos with the built in statistical rigor to guarantee you a competitive draw each game.

Casual decks can be downright silly and fun and still be challenging to play with and against.

Pauper, commander, etc are all a hoot to play but lack the statistical "guarantee" that competitive players are looking for.

The most fun I ever had in my Star Wars CCG days was themed tournaments we used to run.

Death Star versus Attack Run decks. As heard at my table: "Is that Obi Wan and Yoda making an attack run in an Y-Wing?" "Yes. Yes it is."

Hoth Walkers versus Speeders.

Jabba's Palace craziness.

Tattooine Cantina Monster Mash.

Hard Core tournament play had it's moments, but give me a themed tournament any day!

It's nebulous and undefinable. It works only well so long folks have the same subjective view of the matter, and there are alot of views none more correct than the other.

What is this "Draft Masters" set you mention?

 Eilif wrote:
What is this "Draft Masters" set you mention?

I believe he said "Draft Matters" set, which would be Conspiracy I'm assuming.

It is. Conspiracy was built from the ground up to be drafted with up to eight people. Its got great cards, and crazy interactions. If you wanted to start drafting, its probably the best place to start.

The Cube decides who will go and who will stay.

I think the answer to this question depends on who is asking. A successful tournament player might consider casual anything less than big money decks. For my part, someone who likes the idea of magic and all the nice art lol, casual means playing a starter deck against another starter deck with a friend.

I think technically speaking Casual refers to formats which aren't these.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/resources.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/resources/formats-sanctioned

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
I think technically speaking Casual refers to formats which aren't these.

http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/resources.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/resources/formats-sanctioned

Wizards defines casual as a format they dont support with tournaments. That's all well and good, but if me and my buddies are playing around a kitchen table with standard decks with no intention of going to a tournament we're playing casually. If we're playing for fun instead of just trying to win(not that they're exclusive to one another) it's a casual game. The same is true of any format- if you aren't gearing up for ranked competitive, playing with just your friends, and generally just enjoying the game you're playing casually. What wizards defines as casual is largely irrelevant to the casual scene.

Casual means more broken than type 1.

My version of casual means playing my goblin deck that regularly blows up the entire board (myself included). By the end of the game, the Skirk Firemarshal has nuked everything, everyone lost, and we're all sitting around the table laughing and deciding that I have to die quickly, so that there can be an actual winner. Of course, playing goblins, any time I kill everyone, I win.