Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am waiting on FEDEX for my 7th ed books. I wonder though with what we know, will the pendulum swing move toward melee in this edition?

Even if it does, will melee be viable?

A rule many overlooked: GtG forbids using Overwatch.

This helps CC specialists against large shooty squads.

 Darkseid wrote:
A rule many overlooked: GtG forbids using Overwatch.

This helps CC specialists against large shooty squads.

So the tactic is to pin an enemy down with supporting fire (forcing them to go to ground) while advancing on them (and eventually charging) with the assault unit? If so, that makes plenty of tactial sense.

Does anybody know if CSM or Chaos Daemons have pinning?

I can say this much: in 7th FMCs can't land and assault. MAJOR daemon nerf.

Blastmasters are pinning weapons.

Of course, they are also salvo. You move with them, your range is 18 inches max. Just about the range you would need to move, run and assault...

Other than that, Hades Autocannons. That's it for the standard stuff.

Well at least hades autocannons pin. Gives a way to not need Slaanesh to help a Khornate assault.

Its like they (GW) totally did not not notice that some of their most iconic melee units (Banshees, Genestealers, and Assault Squads) had been nerfed by 6th. I really thought they would have addressed it.

 Darkseid wrote:
A rule many overlooked: GtG forbids using Overwatch.

This helps CC specialists against large shooty squads.

They also pulled Pinning from all kinds of things like Barrage, Sniper... So they made it better and less accessible.

Slaanesh Primaris causes Pinning as well.
But laying on firepower before an assault, tempting people to GTG or lose more troops... I like it.

You'll be waiting a while for the FedEx guy. Im home today

Why must it always be Slaanesh!?

Because we're so gosh darned appealing

Haven't seen any actual CC buffs, ie the rumoured consolidate to new CC rule.

FMC are nerfed, making Dreadnaughts 'good' at CC again by comparison. Thats something I guess

The only changes to CC is the GtG removing overwatch benefit (PIN THEM FIRST!!!) and challenges are no longer 100% exclusive from the rest of the unit.

If a challenger kills his opponent with remaining wounds left, they spill over to the rest of the unit.

If a unit in an assault where a challenge is taking place, but have no opponents besides the challenging character, they can attack that character. If there are ANY other targets, even if the challenging character is closer, they cannot intervene the challenge.
Basically meaning no more of this nidzilla neutering my character with a challenge and stalling my WHOLE UNIT an entire turn because theyre cheering on my useless character for rerolls he'll never get lol. Means no more rerolls for cheerleading, but like i said i never get them anyway as i usually go SPLAT when the situation arises.

Hi !

I would say assault is still relegated in a niche role in the 7th edition, as it was in 6th edition.
It becomes even harder to obtain the required charge distance when going through difficult terrain.
2D6 -2 is slightly worse than 3D6 *(pick two lowest).
For example succeeding a 5 inches assault goes from 64% chance in V6 to 58 % chance in V7 ( for reference in open ground : 83%).
I believe this change in rolling method was made for sake of simplicity.
While it is nearly equivalent, it is still an additional nerf on a long list of obstacles to running assault armies.

Characters chaos have suffered a nerf because of new challenges rules, daemons in chaos have suffered a nerf due to sanctic powers, FMCs in chaos have suffered a nerf due to changes to smash and flying charges, and psykers of chaos have suffered a nerf due to even warp 1 powers being much harder to pull off.

Meanwhile, for several new rule reasons, every type of armored vehicle has become ridiculously powerful.

Vehicles didnt get that big of a buff. Its SLIGHTLY harder to instaexplode one, thats it. Jink is a nerf in my books because we got nothing, or we got a 50-50 and snap shots.
They can still be glanced to death relatively easy. I almost never explode vehicles due to bad pen roll luck. Against an Armored Company list, i popped 8 vehicles and only 1 exploded (1850pts). And i had ap2 weapons.
That was in 6th. Now in 7th its even harder to explode them, but i always kill them before the explode is even a factor anyway.

Though gotta admit, they receive several things in their favor.

1) FMCs can't swoop and charge them.
2) Smash has been nerfed.
3) Vehicles now count as WS 1 in combat (3+ to hit).
4) see the page on Ramming
5) Skyfire reduced making the flying vehicles tougher

Killing them is appropriate but more difficult than it was last edition, that's for sure.

The feel I get is that assault can work, but it really needs to be a combined arms force.

I have four armies I play, three of which are assault oriented, but none are exclusively assault. My marines bring devestators and some 5 man tac squads with lascannons, my Korps has tanks backing them up, etc. Disrupting the enemy with fire, and using intervening terrain smartly makes assault armies completely viable. If anything, seeing as most armies are heavily geared to shooting, getting even basic close combat units in can wreck face.

The only assault army I see as being genuinely bad in my experience is Tyranids due to getting nerfed on an already limited book; they have some decent shooting now, but it's not the kind which will let them cross the table, such as pinning, long range or blasts. It doesn't help that their close combat units, while having good offensive stats die to lasguns while being quite expensive for such fragility. Blood Angels as well have some big weaknesses, mostly due to pricing. Most of their assault units aren't cost effective, but, in theory, that'll change.

7th won't do much to change assault armies, but it does add a few new possibilities. Move through cover is now doubly good for ignoring that -2 terrain penalty, and being able to scout after infiltrating or outflanking, while preventing assault, does give you good mobility. Also, Scouting doesn't prevent assaulting, so if you go second you can get a lot of movement off should you have that USR.