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131.M39 The Redemption Crusades
In each of the segmentums of the Imperium a great hero emerges. Like unto the Primarchs of old are these warriors, and the combined efforts of their crusades push back the borders of the Imperium further than they have been for nearly five hundred years. And then, fifty years later, the five heroes vanish without a trace, spurring Ecclesiarch Inovian III to declare them saints returned to the Emperor’s side.


So I just saw the above fluff in the 7th edition rulebook. Does anyone know anything more on these guys? Who are they or where did they go?

Nope, new fluff

Traditional Games' wiki had the redemption crusades in the "Waning" era page of Wh40k since December 2013 and hasn't updated since then, so it must be old fluff. It says it was "mentioned in the rulebook" so, given the date it was updated, I'd say it's in the 6th Ed Rulebook too.

...unless the people who made that page can see the future or something, of course.

The entry is probably copy-pasted from something in 6th ed, so it is likely that these few lines are all that exist on the subject.

 Psienesis wrote:
The entry is probably copy-pasted from something in 6th ed, so it is likely that these few lines are all that exist on the subject.

Either way I would like to see these exaggerated on. It seems they havent decided yet whether or not the primarchs came back for a bit. It mentions 5 of them making an appearance. Has anyone done the math?

Well, let's see:

I: Lion El'Johnson: Asleep in the Rock
II: Unknown: Deleted from Imperial Record
III: Fulgrim : Daemon Prince
IV: Perturabo: Daemon Prince
V: Jaghatai Khan: Lost in the Web-Way, possibly a prisoner of the Dark Eldar
VI: Leman Russ: Went off into the Warp with the 13th Company
VII: Rogal Dorn: Dead
VIII: Konrad Curze: Dead
IX: Sanguinius: Dead
X: Ferrus Manus: Dead
XI: Unknown: Deleted from Imperial Records
XII: Angron: Daemon Prince
XIII: Guilliman: In a stasis field, his head about to fall the feth off
XIV: Mortarion: Daemon Prince
XV: Magnus the Red: Daemon Prince
XVI: Horus: So very, very, very dead.
XVII: Lorgar: Daemon Prince
XVIII: Vulkan : Unknown
XIX: Corvus Corax: Unknown, last seen heading into the EoT
XX: Alpharius Omegon: One may be dead, the other is who the feth knows, but definitely not loyal

... so there's the possibility that four of the Loyalist Primarchs (Russ, Khan, Vulkan, Corax) that might still be alive showed up for a bit, did a thing, and then vanished again. But this is not very likely.

Then you have the possibility of including the 2 "Lost Primarchs"... absolutely nothing is known about these two, but it is suggested that neither of them survived the destruction of their Legions in the GC era.

Hmm, interesting. That's alot of dead Primarchs that could've been temporarily reborn or some such, who knows.

Dork is missing not dead. Although he is missing one of his hands.

Could it have been some of the Mechanicum's nova-primarchs?

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, let's see:
VII: Rogal Dorn: Dead
.

Dorn is speculated to have died since all they found is his hand but it has not been confirmed that he died so I would put that one as just missing but maybe dead.

 Envihon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, let's see:
VII: Rogal Dorn: Dead
.

Dorn is speculated to have died since all they found is his hand but it has not been confirmed that he died so I would put that one as just missing but maybe dead.

That's a ret-con from previously-released information confirming he died on the assault on the Sword of Sacrilege, as related in IA2.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Envihon wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, let's see:
VII: Rogal Dorn: Dead
.

Dorn is speculated to have died since all they found is his hand but it has not been confirmed that he died so I would put that one as just missing but maybe dead.

That's a ret-con from previously-released information confirming he died on the assault on the Sword of Sacrilege, as related in IA2.

I know but hey, it keeps hope alive for those of us who like the Imperial Fists.

I like the Fists, too... doesn't mean I need Dorn to still be kicking around. Personally? I much prefer the Primarchs as figures of historic legend. Ideals and such for men and Marines to look up to (or not, in the case of Traitors)... but having long since disappeared into the Ever-After, leaving only their legacies to endure.

I'm not a fan of the "could be dead but probably isn't" aspect of a lot of the remaining prospects. Guilliman, for example, in his stasis field and mortal injury... yeah, it's nice that people believe that he's healing, but we know that isn't how stasis fields work. You can't heal if time isn't passing, which it doesn't in a stasis field. The fact that the wound is described as passing nearly through his neck tells me that, should that field fail, he'll be dead in seconds, second heart and third lung and insta-clotting blood or no.

Khan is good enough having ridden off into the sunset (of the Web-Way). Whether or not he's still in the Dark Eldar arenas, if ever he was, is irrelevant. Makes a good story hook, but needs no confirmation. It's a nice little bit of "what if?" but needs no further clarification.

Russ? Russ left Fenris because he was old, and said as much to the gathered hosts when he got ready to leave. The idea of him being still alive and running around in the Warp makes a good SW legend, but it makes for poor in-universe fact.

I think, in the end, the whole idea of super-powerful Primarchs that return at the End Times to save the day for Humanity is too many glimmers of hope for a setting that should have none. The only way that such Primarchs could return and not be non-GrimDark is if they show up and get pwned, because they've been left behind by 10,000 years of warfare, or because they encounter new enemies they've never faced before (like Tyranids and Necrons and Tau).

I get what you are saying and I am comfortable with most of the primarchs fates even if Chaos Primarchs are the only one where their legions still fight beside them.

What bothers me most is that Dorn's supposed death is anti-climatic compared to the deaths of his brothers and some how doesn't fit him as he was as a primarch. Everyone else has kind of an epic death or reason for leaving that fits who they are in personality while Dorn's death being mainly a mystery is just a let down when compared to who Dorn was and what the Imperial Fists are.

The Primarchs returning at the end times reminds me too much of Ragnarok to ever not like it.

 Psienesis wrote:
I like the Fists, too... doesn't mean I need Dorn to still be kicking around. Personally? I much prefer the Primarchs as figures of historic legend. Ideals and such for men and Marines to look up to (or not, in the case of Traitors)... but having long since disappeared into the Ever-After, leaving only their legacies to endure.

I'm not a fan of the "could be dead but probably isn't" aspect of a lot of the remaining prospects. Guilliman, for example, in his stasis field and mortal injury... yeah, it's nice that people believe that he's healing, but we know that isn't how stasis fields work. You can't heal if time isn't passing, which it doesn't in a stasis field. The fact that the wound is described as passing nearly through his neck tells me that, should that field fail, he'll be dead in seconds, second heart and third lung and insta-clotting blood or no.

Khan is good enough having ridden off into the sunset (of the Web-Way). Whether or not he's still in the Dark Eldar arenas, if ever he was, is irrelevant. Makes a good story hook, but needs no confirmation. It's a nice little bit of "what if?" but needs no further clarification.

Russ? Russ left Fenris because he was old, and said as much to the gathered hosts when he got ready to leave. The idea of him being still alive and running around in the Warp makes a good SW legend, but it makes for poor in-universe fact.

I think, in the end, the whole idea of super-powerful Primarchs that return at the End Times to save the day for Humanity is too many glimmers of hope for a setting that should have none. The only way that such Primarchs could return and not be non-GrimDark is if they show up and get pwned, because they've been left behind by 10,000 years of warfare, or because they encounter new enemies they've never faced before (like Tyranids and Necrons and Tau).

Would like to see primarchs against the hive mind... emperor save us if one of them becomes biomass super nid.

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, let's see:

I: Lion El'Johnson: Asleep in the Rock
II: Unknown: Deleted from Imperial Record
III: Fulgrim : Daemon Prince
IV: Perturabo: Daemon Prince
V: Jaghatai Khan: Lost in the Web-Way, possibly a prisoner of the Dark Eldar
VI: Leman Russ: Went off into the Warp with the 13th Company
VII: Rogal Dorn: Dead
VIII: Konrad Curze: Dead
IX: Sanguinius: Dead
X: Ferrus Manus: Dead
XI: Unknown: Deleted from Imperial Records
XII: Angron: Daemon Prince
XIII: Guilliman: In a stasis field, his head about to fall the feth off
XIV: Mortarion: Daemon Prince
XV: Magnus the Red: Daemon Prince
XVI: Horus: So very, very, very dead.
XVII: Lorgar: Daemon Prince
XVIII: Vulkan : Unknown
XIX: Corvus Corax: Unknown, last seen heading into the EoT
XX: Alpharius Omegon: One may be dead, the other is who the feth knows, but definitely not loyal

... so there's the possibility that four of the Loyalist Primarchs (Russ, Khan, Vulkan, Corax) that might still be alive showed up for a bit, did a thing, and then vanished again. But this is not very likely.

Then you have the possibility of including the 2 "Lost Primarchs"... absolutely nothing is known about these two, but it is suggested that neither of them survived the destruction of their Legions in the GC era.

It'd be funny if the Salamanders collected all the artefacts of Vulkan, only for Trazyn's dynasty to show up and the Trollver Lord himself to say "Congratulations, but your primarch is in another castle, though I don't think any of you are old enough to understand that joke. As a reward, I will test out my new planet-scale tesseract labyrinth on your world and chapter. Ta-ta."

They're united with their Primarch now alright.

Right next to him in Exhibit C.

Maybe. It's pretty clear IMHO in Unremembered Empire that the last artifact is Vulkan himself, although it'd be funny if Trazyn popped out of that casket instead.

 Psienesis wrote:

XX: Alpharius Omegon: One may be dead, the other is who the feth knows, but definitely not loyal

I resent that! Alpharius made it quite clear he turned on the Emperor for the Emperor!

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

XX: Alpharius Omegon: One may be dead, the other is who the feth knows, but definitely not loyal

I resent that! Alpharius made it quite clear he turned on the Emperor for the Emperor!

Nobody knows the Alpha Legion's actual loyalties and intent.

Not Abaddon, not the Emperor, not the Chaos Gods themselves, hell I don't think THEY know their own loyalties.

Which tells me that the Alpha Legion isn't loyal. If even they don't know who they're working for, we have enough evidence of the actions they're known to have taken being actively detrimental to the Imperium, and can thus judge them as traitorous, even if they aren't Chaotically so.

I doubt the are Primarchs. I think it's just comparing their efforts to the great crusade level of territory reclaim.

Maybe they were 5 Custodes sent out to lead a force for some unknown reason. "Saints returned to the Emperor's side" and all that.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

XX: Alpharius Omegon: One may be dead, the other is who the feth knows, but definitely not loyal

I resent that! Alpharius made it quite clear he turned on the Emperor for the Emperor!

It is in the fluff that they are so deep undercover it is hard for them to know where they stand. They do it all for the emperor. It is my belief that it could of been an Alpha legion operative that took horus shields down resulting in his death by the emperor.

The Alpha Legion needs their own codex, hell, just give us a supplement. Look at what FW did with them.

 DxM Scotty MxD wrote:
Could it have been some of the Mechanicum's nova-primarchs?

Call me ignorant but these are new to me...link please?

 Brother Lem wrote:

 DxM Scotty MxD wrote:
Could it have been some of the Mechanicum's nova-primarchs?

Call me ignorant but these are new to me...link please?

Sorry all I know about nova-primarchs is a quote that Lynata posted. Essentially what happens is the mechanicum make three "primarchs" in a facility, the facility gets FUBAR'd and the S&R team finds two of the specimens dead and one missing. Now if the specimens are really primarch levels then they probably got something right since one is missing. If the AdMech found out what kept that specimen alive they could probably make a few nock-off primarchs to lead a crusade or two. I'll pm lynata and see if I can get him to give me the quote.