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Hello everyone

In the future (currently in the design phase), I would like to design, write, print, and bind together a physical copy of a codex of a fan made space marine chapter.

There are some kinks:

1. Essentially I would be designing my own fluff, lore and history of the chapter but including say the exact same rules and stats lines from the current legitimate Space Marine codex or equivalent so as to be able to play legal/fair games.

2. I would like to use the several of Games Workshops 40k logos and symbols in the codex to make it appear legit or real. I will NOT be including the actual Games Workshop company logo.

3. I would be commissioning several custom artworks/pictures to use in the Codex from a personal artist friend of mine, in addition to a color cover page and title name of the chapter bearing resemblance in style/format to the current GW hard cover 6th edition codices. In other words, make it almost appear like a legitimate codex.

4. The reason for this is that I like the idea of bringing a codex for a my own personal fan made chapter, almost making it appear like a legit chapter from the game etc.


Here is Disclaimer:

1. This physical copy of the fan made codex will be for my own personal and private use. It would be 1 of a kind. No other copies. (To the best of my knowledge.)

2. I will not distribute or sell any materials from the fan made codex and will be making no profit whatsoever.

3. All rights and trademarks to all respective owners are reserved.

My questions are...
Despite all of this, how much trouble would I stir up if I were to bring this fan-made codex physically into a friendly local gaming store? To a official tournament? Or even to a Local Games Workshop Store?
Would Games Workshop pursue some sort of legal action or demand that my physical copy of the codex be deposed of and any materials relating to it? Of course I could be bringing the original legitimate Space Marine codex and current edition rulebook along with it if there are any rules disputes.

I am asking this due to GW's past history in its copyright/legal disputes and their notorious public relations. If anyone as any experience with fan made rules/fluff and copyright disputes please share. I would also like to know if anyone has gone this far when creating their own unique space marine chapter or other army divisions etc.

I didn't think calling GW legal department would get me the appropriate feedback and answers I'd want. Which is why I'm posting here.

Thanks for your time.

Not sire on logo,s but I'd your making no money from it, that helps as it as no financial gain for you.

From a legal standpoint:

As long as you a) do not engage in financial transactions using the finished item and b) do not directly/indirectly "damage" GW property they should have no objection. You should also make it abundantly clear that this is not an official product; trying to pass your work off as GW produce is fraud.

Point a), not really a problem unless you were going to start selling copies. You've said you're not going to, good. Don't. One thing GW is getting more active with is shutting down third party profit-making ventures using their IP.

Point b), a little harder to determine. To illustrate:

You show up to a GW store with your Codex. Another person is in the store, considering making his first purchase. He has done a little research, and thinks Space Marines would be cool. He then sees your Codex, and decides he wants to use that instead. You don't sell him a copy, but he is none the less inspired to go home and write his own rules, rather than spending money in the store. GW's business has been "damaged" by your use of their IP.

Of course, a GW manager cannot confiscate your Codex. The physical item is your property, and to take it from you would be theft. They would therefore be left with legal proceedings, likely looking for some sort of injunction to stop you "advertising" your work, and at the same time making a case that you are using their IP without permission. You've then got a legal battle on your hands.

N.B., the above is more or less the absolute worst case scenario. Consider that people make use of GW IP all the time on the internet with the thousands of "fan-dexes" floating around, fan -built websites and even unofficial tournaments producing copy with GW IP (these tournaments even make money at GW's "expense"). Few of these are ever approached by GW legal.

What you are proposing is small-scale, and given that legal proceedings are expensive it is incredibly unlikely that anything would ever come of it. Unless you're selling copies, which you're not.

You may get odd reactions from other players (I for one am always very skeptical of "fan-dexes"; people say GW are bad and don't playtest but that has nothing on some of the stuff floating around that players have created) and GW staff may not allow you to use it at locations where they have final say (they will want you to buy the proper book, which is better for business).

You can, of course, always counter-argue that you're just using a lot of house rules to forge your own narrative, which is actively encouraged. Ironic, really.


A final word of advice, more for your own sake than anything else. It's a great idea. I am sure your book will look great. If you want it to be more than an item on your book-shelf don't go overboard with the rules changes. If people are going to play against it, then it has to be fairly easy for them to grasp in order to keep the experience fun on both sides.

Thirty pages of new weapons, rules and stat lines are not going to do you any favors.

 Majikoi wrote:
1. Essentially I would be designing my own fluff, lore and history of the chapter but including say the exact same rules and stats lines from the current legitimate Space Marine codex or equivalent so as to be able to play legal/fair games.

This is not legal. Rules can not be copyrighted, but the words used to express them are. So a literal copy/paste is a copyright violation. To make this legal you would have to state the rules in your own words.

3. I would be commissioning several custom artworks/pictures to use in the Codex from a personal artist friend of mine, in addition to a color cover page and title name of the chapter bearing resemblance in style/format to the current GW hard cover 6th edition codices. In other words, make it almost appear like a legitimate codex.

This is possibly illegal, depending on the fine details of copyright/trademark law. Your commissioned artist could be using GW trademarks in a for-profit product, but since it's an original work it could be legal. As the cases involving GW suing third-party companies that make similar models have demonstrated making your own not-space-marines that just happen to look almost exactly like GW space marines is far from a settled issue.

Despite all of this, how much trouble would I stir up if I were to bring this fan-made codex physically into a friendly local gaming store?

Nobody would care. Independent stores are not paid to enforce GW's IP claims, and since you bought a real codex you aren't using pirated work or anything that would cost the store a sale. However, "nobody would care" probably also includes all your special snowflake art and fluff. Most people are just going to want to play a game, so if your rules are the same as the standard codex then most people probably won't even bother looking at your special codex.

To a official tournament?

You'd probably be kicked out, but this would be a good thing since GW's official tournaments suck. And of course unless you're in the UK they don't exist at all, so this is a problem you shouldn't have to worry about.

Or even to a Local Games Workshop Store?

Depends on the employee. They might tell you to put it away and use the normal book, or they might think it's cool. The players will probably just ignore your special snowflake book and only care about the rules. Though I have no idea why you're willingly going into a GW store when you seem to have an independent store available.

Would Games Workshop pursue some sort of legal action or demand that my physical copy of the codex be deposed of and any materials relating to it?

Probably not. GW's legal department is a bunch of incompetent zealots, but they aren't that stupid. What you're talking about is way too small to bother with a lawsuit over, any plausible damages would be way less than the cost of paying the lawyers to deal with you. As long as you don't set up www.myillegalcodex.com and start taunting GW with it nobody is even going to know that you exist.

I didn't think calling GW legal department would get me the appropriate feedback and answers I'd want.

It won't. GW's legal department will obviously say "no, that's not legal", but GW's legal department has a long history of making claims about its IP rights that are based on "laws" that exist only in GW's private fantasy world. If you look at GW's "what you're not allowed to do with our IP" page quite a bit of it is probably not even close to enforceable in court.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Majikoi wrote:
1. Essentially I would be designing my own fluff, lore and history of the chapter but including say the exact same rules and stats lines from the current legitimate Space Marine codex or equivalent so as to be able to play legal/fair games.

This is not legal. Rules can not be copyrighted, but the words used to express them are. So a literal copy/paste is a copyright violation. To make this legal you would have to state the rules in your own words.
.

This is a serious misunderstanding of copyright concepts. It is not the exact words that are copyrighted (that's covered by trademarks). It's the ideas and concepts, therefore paraphrasing will not exclude you from liability under copyright laws. In many court cases the use of direct quotes have been used as evidence of copyright breach but it's not word copying that's on trial, it's just that by copying words you make it easier for accusers to prove that the ideas as a whole were copied.

However as Xyptc points out so long as it's for personal; use and you aren't selling it or passing it on to third parties copyright simply doesn't apply.

Bezerker Saberhagen wrote:
This is a serious misunderstanding of copyright concepts. It is not the exact words that are copyrighted (that's covered by trademarks). It's the ideas and concepts, therefore paraphrasing will not exclude you from liability under copyright laws. In many court cases the use of direct quotes have been used as evidence of copyright breach but it's not word copying that's on trial, it's just that by copying words you make it easier for accusers to prove that the ideas as a whole were copied.

Except, at least under US copyright law, rules for playing a game can not be copyrighted (this is explicitly stated by the government). The ideas and concepts of unit stat lines, special rules, etc, can all be copied freely. Copyright protection would only apply to the text of Codex: Space Marines. It's kind of like a case of writing a news article about a real-world event: if you and I both write an article we're obviously going to cover all of the same facts, and mine isn't a copyright violation just because you published yours first. It's only a problem if I copy/pasted (or paraphrased without doing sufficient original work of my own) your specific words instead of independently writing my own about the same facts.

However as Xyptc points out so long as it's for personal; use and you aren't selling it or passing it on to third parties copyright simply doesn't apply.

This is absolutely not true.

Well as was said, you are small fish so I can't see GW going after you. Then again GW did go after "small fish" on the internet and not allow them to use any GW pics, art work or what not so I wouldn't be bringing this into a GW store if you make one.

Also double check the codex and other books you are using. There will be saying something that nothing can be copied or photo copied or used without the "written consent" of GW.

That being said, I can't remember how the laws work in Canada now since they have changed. I know you can use other peoples work for "private" or "personal" use, at home only. So once taken out and if going into a GW store as was mentioned before, GW could have a case of you "lowering GW standards (if that is even possible when it comes to rules writing) so who knows what can happen.

Only thing is certain, is, as long as it's at home you will be ok. Just like how people make molds from GW minis, as long as it's at home, and not sold and not being flaunted or used in public, you are perfectly find.

Just don't take it out of your house. We all make house rules. Thing is most pick up games don't like using house rules let alone home brew rules or codices.

Davor wrote:
Also double check the codex and other books you are using. There will be saying something that nothing can be copied or photo copied or used without the "written consent" of GW.

This doesn't necessarily mean anything. GW claims a lot of things that they aren't actually entitled to according to the copyright laws that exist outside of their own private fantasy world. For example, they like to pretend that "fair use" doesn't exist.

Just like how people make molds from GW minis, as long as it's at home, and not sold and not being flaunted or used in public, you are perfectly find.

This is absolutely not legal. It's difficult/impossible for GW to do anything about it, but recasting at home for personal use is still illegal.

Of course, your own laws in Canada will undoubtedly be different, but in the US, what you're talking about is both illegal and unenforceable. As such, it's a matter of how much you want to risk the former to try and gain the latter.

Honestly, I'd just ditch all the official GW stuff. No stamp saying that a rules set is official makes the rules any more official, so it's not even remotely necessary to even flaunt GW's IP to make it look more "legit". If it's not the rules, its expansion rules, which are judged on their own merits, rather than what logos they have plastered on them.

If Canada has a "fair use" doctrine, then, depending on its precedence, will likely apply to what you are doing, but that doesn't mean you should bother doing it in the first place.