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Scenario:
Drop Pod bangs down, and IC pops out. He moves into coherency of a friendly unit that was already on the table. He is now a member of the unit for all rules purposes, including whether that unit has arrived from reserve this turn.

Question:
Can that unit launch an assault?

A unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from Reserve.

From the subheading "Moving on from reserves"

An IC "counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes." The unit has not arrived from reserve.
In the Reserves section, only units (not models) are described as being in Reserve.

Or, since "counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes.", the unit is now considered as "arrived from reserves" since the IC joined it.

The IC rules do not say that the unit counts as the IC's unit.
The IC rules say the IC "counts as part of the unit."

"A counts as B" is different than "B counts as A."
All squares are rectangles. Not all rectangles are squares.

We had this like a week ago.

And with the new rules...there are new rules.

It needs an answer.

The rules are identical, by the looks of it? So the debate will be identical? Just use the search?

Same as the last thread, as far as I can see nothing significant in the wording changed. Soul Blaze and blind are examples of ongoing effects, they are unchanged, reserves and assaults are worded the same for the most part and disembarking is still normal movement.

If it was not an assault vehicle would be much clearer

Unless I missed something. If not it's meeting resistance either way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, scratch that. No because page 81 disembarking restrictions, and 88 assault vehicle rule.
Models can't charge after disembarking unless assault vehicle

&

Assault vehicle; gives the permission to override the above unless the transport arrived from reserves.

I'm not even going to look if I missed that from 6ed. Duh.

See ongoing effects in respect to how they impact characters leaving or joining a unit.

IC A is affected by an ongoing effect X

A joins unit B and counts as being part of unit B

B now inherits any penalties from ongoing effect X unless it is specific to that model in which case it only applies to that model.

I.E: A character who was blinded is still blinded if it joins a unit but does not blind the unit he joins, but a character with a HfH (hunters from hyperspace) token will make any unit he's joined also affected by the HfH token.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Scenario:
Drop Pod bangs down, and IC pops out. ....

How is the IC in the pod if he's not already attached to the unit that took the pod as a DT? And, since he'd be attached to that unit, how is he leaving the unit on the turn he arrives from reserves?

It's people hunting for Easter eggs...just like they always do with a new codex/edition.

Move along there's nothing to see here.

The arguments that are applicable here are the exact same as the arguments presented in the last debate. Please re-read the last thread you created.

Rorschach9 wrote:
And, since he'd be attached to that unit, how is he leaving the unit on the turn he arrives from reserves?

Because...he's allowed to leave coherency in his turn? I don't know what you're trying to say. In 6e, there was a restriction on leaving a unit the turn the IC arrived from reserve. I cannot find that restriction in 7e. You seem to think it's still there, so could you please cite the page for me?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 troa wrote:
The arguments that are applicable here are the exact same as the arguments presented in the last debate. Please re-read the last thread you created.

But yes, I think that, for the most part, this is true.

No, no it's not. Joining a unit doesn't remove restrictions that the IC may have.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
The IC rules do not say that the unit counts as the IC's unit.
The IC rules say the IC "counts as part of the unit."

"A counts as B" is different than "B counts as A."
All squares are rectangles. Not all rectangles are squares.

That is what I get for not properly reading the question(Darn Kids).

I personally say that yes, the Unit with attached reserve-entering IC can assault. I do not believe that is exactly RAI, but it is RAW.

I believe this for the exact same reason that I fought so hard for IC BBs in an allied transport when attached to a same faction as the transport unit, and Preferred enemy between BB IC and unit(Preferred enemy: IC does nothing, Preferred enemy: unit hits the IC in the same way, even in challenges), The IC becomes part of the unit and is no longer a unit itself, "The unit" did not enter from reserves this turn, even though one member did(The rules for reserves and Deepstrike are all about the unit, not Models); so may charge. This is unlike 1 model firing Heavy, Rapid Fire, or Salvo weapons, which is models firing those weapons may not charge, and then since 1 model may not charge neither can the unit.

Again, there is nothing that says restrictions are removed when joining.

There is also the problem with leaving and joining in the same movement turn...which completely invalidates the OPs question.

The IC model can not charge after disembarking from the drop pod, different restriction, specifically on the model, easier answer raw is defiantly No on that one. I posted the page numbers before.

If you come on via the board edge and join, maybe. People will generally dislike trying to play the joining system to circumvent restrictions which are in the game for good reason.

The restriction is on a unit entering from reserve charging, The IC joined to another unit is no longer a unit itself, therefore there are no restrictions.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
The restriction is on a unit entering from reserve charging, The IC joined to another unit is no longer a unit itself, therefore there are no restrictions.

As above, there's also a restriction on that model, through different rules.

 Nem wrote:
The IC model can not charge after disembarking from the drop pod, different restriction, specifically on the model, easier answer raw is defiantly No on that one. I posted the page numbers before.

If you come on via the board edge and join, maybe. People will generally dislike trying to play the joining system to circumvent restrictions which are in the game for good reason.

NM Looking back I see what you were saying. Ignore the poor exampole of an IC Deepstriking via Drop pod(after all how the heck did he get in there to begin with?).

Walking on, or termie armour/Jump pack deepstriking; is perfectly valid.

Where are we told the restrictions of the IC are removed? And the situation is impossible.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Nem wrote:
The IC model can not charge after disembarking from the drop pod, different restriction, specifically on the model, easier answer raw is defiantly No on that one. I posted the page numbers before.

If you come on via the board edge and join, maybe. People will generally dislike trying to play the joining system to circumvent restrictions which are in the game for good reason.

Drop pods state a unit, not a Model, SM codex page 99

So neither the model nor the unit then, there is no specific conflict, both apply.

 hisdudeness wrote:
Where are we told the restrictions of the IC are removed? And the situation is impossible.

The restriction is on the unit arriving from Reserves. Is the IC still a unit on his own when joined?

Yes, just one attached to another unit. That restriction is not removed just because the model joins another unit...unless you can find a rule that says it does.

So I can specifically target the IC unit in my shooting phase?

And how do you reconcile the loss of all other models in the unit other than the IC where he then "again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase."?

 hisdudeness wrote:
Yes, just one attached to another unit. That restriction is not removed just because the model joins another unit...unless you can find a rule that says it does.

So you're wilfully breaking the IC rule, by NOT treating him as a normal member of the unit for ALL rules purposes! Please cite your specific and explicit allowance to do so.

No, because we are specifically told we cannot do such a thing. How is that helping your view?

You show me a rule saying that when a IC joins a unit it has all restrictions removed and we can finish this thread off.

 hisdudeness wrote:
No, because we are specifically told we cannot do such a thing. How is that helping your view?

You show me a rule saying that when a IC joins a unit it has all restrictions removed and we can finish this thread off.

No, you're told the IC unit may not charge. Once joined there IS NO IC UNIT.

If you claim there is, yours breaking the rules. Please state your exact permission to do so

If it helps you, think of IC as a set and as a member of the set. The restriction is the set, not the member. No set, no restriction

The IC still arrived from reserve that turn regardless of the unit he joined, so...

Page 81 right column, first paragraph, Disembarkation Restrictions.

Page 162 Deep Strike, 3rd column, first para.