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Hi everyone,

I started collecting a 40k army a few months ago (yeah I've got to re-buy the rules and it sucks) and played my first few games recently and got crushed inconceivably. I was wondering if any of you could point out on all the different aspects, or the basics on how to play this game. I read articles on how to use the strength of my army and weakness of the others, but really, I don't even know how to play this game. Is there any basic how to on dakka dakka? There is a fantastic one for WFB and people seem more willing to teach me warmachine, but 40k, people just find pleasure in crushing me horribly... and I'd like to like my models and play them.

Thank you in advance,

First thing - what army/armies are you using

what models do you own?

So, to put an answer at the same scope asked, 40k is a game where you play odds. Which odds you play are determined by the list you bring, and to a lesser extent how you deploy and then move those miniatures on the table.

The latter has a pretty steep learning curve, but it's also actually pretty shallow. Once you learn to point the meltaguns at the tanks, shoot the choppy and chop the shooty, and what things are the biggest threats that need to die first, your average game of 40k is actually going to be pretty straightforward. Lose a few more games, and you'll likely start picking up on these principles intuitively.

The former, on the other hand, is what is going to be more important to you right now, most likely. The combination of units you bring gives your list strength, and some lists are stronger than others. If what you want to do is win games, then you need to bring stronger lists. It turns out that at any given time, there is going to be one or a small pool of lists that is the strongest, and once you hit that level, then you can sort of ignore list strength (as list strength becomes more equal to its peers the higher up you get, it becomes a control variable).

After that point, it's just who is luckier. Unless you're willing to cheat, there's not much advice we can give. Some people consistently roll well, or roll poorly (the law of large numbers never really applies to the tiny sample sizes that 40k produces, even over many games), and that's unfortunately just sort of how it is.

In any case, what you seem to want most is to be able to show up and have fun, rather than just getting roflstomped without being able to really get to play the game. If this is the case, you either have to become like your opponents, or you need to find different opponents. Not everybody plays 40k for the purpose of bringing the strongest lists they can and trying as hard as possible to horribly club their opponents. Ask around. I'm sure you can find something.

The best thing you can do is read the rules a few times, once you understand what you are capable of doing you can transfer that onto the battlefield.

know what your models can do, how much damage they can do, and how much they can take. Think tactically, like chess. a lot of the game is positioning, and movement and are the most influenced by you.

The next thing you need to do is make sure your taking a semi competitive list of units, and if we knew what opponent army you were facing we could advise you on if that was a hard battle to win regardless of your skills.

There is no substitute for front line experience. I love this game because I can take a list of war machines and go to war on my own terms, use my cunning to outplay my opponent. I play the same person a lot (others too) he says every time we play I surprise him with a move/tactic or idea, and that is what keeps me going.

Thanks everyone,

For those who would like to know what models I own, here it is, I own Dark Eldar as I find they have the prettiest models :

10 Kabalite Warriors / Trueborn
10 Wyches
3 Reavers
5 Scourges
5 Wracks
3 Haemonculus
2 Raiders
2 Venoms

I am considering buying a Ravager, 5 more Wracks and Incubis... don't know in what order though.. Incubis will need a Venom, so probably last buy I'll make

As you're starting the game, try to play against armies that are easier to handle. Tau and Eldar are very hard, for example; I'd avoid those for now. Explain to your opponents that you're new to the game; reasonable players will understand.
Speaking of that, try to play with newer players as well, so you two can learn at the same time (a third person, more experienced, but not too nosy, can help as well, acting as a 'judge' with rule matters)

cloudsabacc wrote:
Thanks everyone,

For those who would like to know what models I own, here it is, I own Dark Eldar as I find they have the prettiest models :

10 Kabalite Warriors / Trueborn
10 Wyches
3 Reavers
5 Scourges
5 Wracks
3 Haemonculus
2 Raiders
2 Venoms

I am considering buying a Ravager, 5 more Wracks and Incubis... don't know in what order though.. Incubis will need a Venom, so probably last buy I'll make

Yeah you are short on transport as for me that's what Dark Eldar live on - also ask your opponents if as you are starting if they don't mind proxying things to give you a chance to try things out.

Wyches are counter-intuitively tank hunters rather than Close Combat which I find is best handled by incubi - have you got a Archon (or something to proxy) I like a huskblade, Shadowfield and blaster combo myself - kills things good if you get in there.

A Ravager or three is a must as its a primary AT gunship.

I like to read the rules and then make notes to myself on what to do when and work it through. A good spreadsheet or army builder is really handy so you can see at agalcne you units special rules and weapons - helps decide what to do with them.

cloudsabacc wrote:
Thanks everyone,

For those who would like to know what models I own, here it is, I own Dark Eldar as I find they have the prettiest models :

10 Kabalite Warriors / Trueborn
10 Wyches
3 Reavers
5 Scourges
5 Wracks
3 Haemonculus
2 Raiders
2 Venoms

I am considering buying a Ravager, 5 more Wracks and Incubis... don't know in what order though.. Incubis will need a Venom, so probably last buy I'll make

As far as armies go dark elder are the hardest to learn, but also the ones people forget to plan for because they ignore 40k logic. frankly im not surprised by the losses, they are not a bad army, quite the opposite but they are hard to play.

"I have a high toughness model so few things will hurt it"
you pack poison on literally everything that isn't a anti tank laser, almost everything you have will hurt the above

"my tanks have exceptionally thick armour, nothing will breach it"
Except your lances and your haywire grenades, the former reduces armour,and the latter doesn't give a gak, stripping hull points like a sandblaster strips paint

"night fighting will force my enemy to come closer so I lose the benefits"
night vision on everything pal, snipe them from one end of the board if you like and camp cover yourself, no other army has global night vision, exploit it

"my heavy weapons will be safe at the back of the board"
and you can cover the length of the board first turn

dark eldar are a glass cannon, hits really hard but shatters on return fire, you need to learn about how to use cover and how to move models, keep playing is all I can tell you and don't give up

few things to note
poison is a double edged sword, you wound the big things easily but mass horde armies are a problem due to wounding weak t3 models on 4s
tanks are every bit a vulnerable as infantry in your case so use cover

Nasty tricks

ruin grabbin
standard practice for heavy weapon units is to hide at the back and snipe from a covered position, that's why the opponent always grabs a nice juicy ruin and places it in his corner, zip a raider behind his own ruin and use the cover against him, wracks have access to liquefier guns which are a nice template weapons that can scour the suckers from cover then occupy the ruin and force him back behind he own lines, if they last till the end of the game and he ignores them you get line breaker

reserves
enemy will move up at the start of the gam and spread out and this gives you more room to manoeuvre, hence its a good idea to keep some units in reserves so that you have fresh guys waiting to exploit the newfound freedom of movement

gun down
your aircraft look awesome, and are also a great source of blast template death, which is helpful against hordes, but they are squishy. now the cheapest source of anti air is a quad gun on a ageis defence line, its very common, the gun is a t7 model with 2 wound and thanks to poison its child's play to disable, the worst part about flyers is having no good weapons to shoot them with. and an unchalanged razorwing will promptly clean up infantry

hope this is of help, if you tell me who your playing against I can help better

Nice Dark Eldar first army proves you are the manliest person at your club.

They are a hard and unforgiving army - but if you stick it out you will learn the game inside and out, you picked a great army.

Of course, this is all ahead of you, because at the moment you just want to even the playing field a little - completely understandable.

Your list by no means has any bad units - which is a good thing about DE, as there is very little bad units in context to the army. You have a great building point - I wouldn't worry about what Mr Morden said about being too light on transports (no offense to Mr Morden) as every walking unit has a transport and that's the important thing. It is however definitely something to keep in mind for the future. as the more Venoms and Raiders you have the better.


I would definitely grab a Ravager (or three) to knock down some of the harder hitting tanks or MC's you might encounter. I'd hazard a guess that this is where you are facing trouble as well. The reason I say three (as did Mr Morden!) is not so much because you are light on AT, or that 1 of them does not have the firepower to deal with a threat, but because they die so easy and you are rolling an army that specialises in awesome ways of dealing with all sorts of infantry. And Ravagers are just good value no matter what you need! As such I take three of them practically every list!




Scourges can be hard by the way. No idea how you have them loaded out, but they are an expensive unit flying across the field without much happening to stop your opponent wiping them out. I'd be careful how you use these guys, I have only ever found success with them against good opponents by bringing them flying out the midfield turn 2 or 3 from a Web Way Portal. They are pretty breakable!


As for your other units, just make sure the Wyches have Haywire grenades, they are my favourite unit in the dex, they can kickass in combat with infantry as well as nuke vehicles all day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the above poster ninja'd in before me, but he's also very on point! The Dark Eldar Razorwing flyer is great too for the Heavy Support and practically the only thing contesting the Ravager for me. He can absolutely nuke infantry. He is pretty easy to bring down, but if you can take down everything that threatens him first, well - 1 of these is always worth considering bringing along.

The one thing I would disagree with him about is poison being a double edge sword. It's still single edge, the edge just isn't as sharp vs the hordes. However, you still have rapid firing AP 5 BS4 shooting - it will chew through even small infantry.

He also did a great job of summing up some of the cool strengths and fun things about your army. I will mention that speed is a big thing for you - you are one of the fastest armies in the game (a title probably only contested by your overpowered *cough* sorry i mean, non corrupted brothers). Use speed to your advantage, but not to rush in blindly, but to play the ranges of combat to your liking.

You will get a lot of information to absorb from this thread, so just get out and put some of it into practice, I guarantee you'll do better than before. However, I can't guarantee that a big victory is around the corner anytime soon, and if thats what you need for this game to be fun, it might take a bit - but you best believe it will be worth it. You will know you earned it. Not because Dark Eldar aren't strong (they are), but because every victory takes strategy!

As said, be careful with your match ups. Tau are actually ok for you though, even though they are a hard match up against many other armies. Craftworld Eldar will break your face though. Want an easy win? play against Tyranids you are built to smash them

Now that Deep Strike vehicles counts as moving at Combat Speed, Retrofire Jets in a Raider filled with Warriors can mess up the backside of any gunline. Venoms with Trueborns as well, regarding vehicles.
just watch out for space (the Raider isn't small, after all)

The only people I know who play Dark Eldar like to keep most of their models grouped closely. Dark Eldar are a list that works all together, compared to a space marines, who are more rounded out, each dark eldar unit is a specialist of some sort. Try finding the most different squads and putting them close to eachother to make up for each others flaws.

I'll use space marines as an example for this:

Scouts can infiltrate early on in the game, so I like to have scouts go far away with a bunch of snipers and and missle launcher as bait, and to pick out targets. I use them to lead away horde groups like orks. I then have my Terminators deepstrike near them, to effectively wipe out the threat, and set up a flank.

So my scouts suck at close combat (none of them take close combat weapons) Where my terminators are all built for close combat (lightning claws FTW!) to effectively cover the flaws of the scouts.

Ha, I've got a friend who just got into the game and also decided to go dark eldar (despite my warning, haha!).
So, being a little obsessive, I've spent the last several weeks researcing dark eldar tactica and units and such.
Here's a few pointers:

Keep everything mounted in a vehicle and keep your enemies at arm's length. Of course, only if you can outrange him. Focus on what can shoot back first and only approach to within their weapons range if you can statistically cripple the target unit before he can shoot back. (Dark eldar statistics are easy to calculate, since you alwas hit with everything 2/3s of the time, and wound 1/2 the time).
If the enemy has comparable range to the 36" of your main guns (dark lance and splinter cannon), then stay out of sight if at all possible. Ideally, you only ever want to see a single unit with your units. Focus on one unit at a time until it's wiped out. Darkies get alot more survivalable once you get that first pain token.

Wyches are pretty much only good for tarpitting. Since, in the latest edition, a unit can only use 1 grenade per phase (throw one, assault one).
Before that, they used to be great for anti-tank, not so much any more. Warriors are awesome, however. A raider full of warriors w/splinter racks makes them the bane of flying monstrous creatures, too. Nightshields can also give you an edge, when trying to keep opponents at arms length.

Actually, the best advice i could probably give you is this...
http://www.thedarkcity.net/f6-dark-eldar-tactics
These guys LOVE dark eldar!

Ravagers are very handy, voidravens and razorwings are also good. Talos pain engines are also rugged as hell and more importantly, scary. They can run up the center and attract in inordinate amount of firepower before they die. With their TL Liquiefier they can annihilate infantry and since they're MCs, they can crush tanks pretty handily as well, so the other guy can't safely ignore them. This keeps them from shooting squishier units.

If I were to suggest purchases to expand, 10-30 more warriors (all in raiders) would be a great start. My buddy got a great deal on a dark eldar force with about 40 warriors and 4 raiders (and a bunch of other stuff) for $200, and we've been playing alot of small games every weekend for a few weeks now. He's already beaten me twice, and I've been playing since second ed (though I'm not really a waac player, especially when teaching someone new).
Hope some of that helps.

cloudsabacc wrote:
Hi everyone,

I started collecting a 40k army a few months ago (yeah I've got to re-buy the rules and it sucks) and played my first few games recently and got crushed inconceivably. I was wondering if any of you could point out on all the different aspects, or the basics on how to play this game. I read articles on how to use the strength of my army and weakness of the others, but really, I don't even know how to play this game. Is there any basic how to on dakka dakka? There is a fantastic one for WFB and people seem more willing to teach me warmachine, but 40k, people just find pleasure in crushing me horribly... and I'd like to like my models and play them.

Thank you in advance,

Welcome to 40k =/

There are a lot of people with this mentality in the game, so the only way your going to enjoy it is to find the players who don't play like this.

Problem is, they're more often the 'garage gamers' and such. If your playing pick up games your far more likely to find the d-bags IMO.

Your just starting out and you picked Dark Eldar. Dark Eldar possess the steepest learning curve of all 40k armies. Just know this as you play because your army is all offense no defense. One wrong move can spell doom for your army. On the flip side once DE are mastered they are ridiculus to fight and turn most people into whipping boys.

Thank you so much all of you. First your comments motivate me to continue playing the game and second they even hint at what I could/should be purchasing next. So on my list, I think next will be my first Ravager as anti-tank is very light in my army (and I hated heavy weapons on the scourge). Next is probably be another box of warriors and either a raider or 2 venoms...

Thank you all, wish the playgroup I am joining will be as cool as you guys. You've been of great help, I'll probably be back on the forums, even if only to read, but I know if I have questions, dakka has a great community,

See you all and maybe we'll even play someday, who knows?...

I actually wish Dakkadakka was my play group as well. This site attracts people who care about the game the most and appreciate it's finer aspects. The unfortunate reality is that a lot of other people who play 40k get a douchebag mentality. It's about 1 in 5 for me I think tho so it's all good

DE have IMO slightly improved. There is now reason to field wyches more than as Knight killer. Our unit diversity increased. Unlike other armies, our AA remains unchanged while theirs got nerfed Our aircraft improved substantially with from what I hear is the ability to fire all missiles making for a nasty squad killing alpha strike especially when you add in dissies and splintercannon(even terminator squads will go down or be hurt badly to this strike without much issue on average rolls). Bomber has some of the only real ranged AT we have available. Since we have flicker fields, the whole jink save nerf never really affected us in the first place and now it becomes useful for our vehicles as well.

So we might be a glass cannon but DE did not fundamentally change play styles like other armies switching to the new edition. You still have a steep learning curve ahead of you. If you play cautious, you lose.

Other than that, if you liked 6th ed, there really isn't a ton of changes between the two editions. Aside from challenges, the changes are mostly for the better. Challenges continue to make no sense.