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This issue has come up on a couple boards related to Jink and Invisible units. If this is too similar to the other threads, feel free to delete or disable.

In the Shooting Sequence, you need to (1) Nominate a Unit to Shoot, (2) Choose a Target, (3) Select a Weapon, (4) Roll to Hit, etc/

The Death Ray rule states the following:

"To fire the death ray, nominate a point on the battlefield anywhere within the wepaon's range, then nominate a second point withing 3d6 of the first....", then draw a line, every unit gets hit by # of models in that unit under the line.

Does the Death Ray entry override the need to Choose a Target in the Main Rulebook?

hehe I loved these threads in 6th edition. Before this thread gets wildly cluttered with vastly opposing viewpoints:

I believe it does, but that the target is changed from a specific unit to specific points on the battlefield. However it is 'extremely' debatable just how much (if any) of the main shooting rules you are supposed to use and how much is superceded by the deathray rules themselves.

As such, until the death ray get's FAQ entries (again) you'll probably see one of those many page debates once more should folk decide to weigh in as they have previously.

Yeah...just to state it, my position is also that this issue is need of an FAQ. Both sides could argue their point successfully, and both would be correct.

I've been hoping to seal down an airtight argument one way or another, but I can't do it.

You cannot shootdeathray at an. Invisible target as it is written now, it does not snap fire.

Lungpickle wrote:
You cannot shootdeathray at an. Invisible target as it is written now, it does not snap fire.

It doesn't need to target an invisible unit, so yes it can.

Worst case scenario (for the Necron player)...you just say you are shooting at a non-invisible unit, then when it comes time to make your points and draw your line as specified by the Death Ray rules, you just ignore that you said you were shooting at the non-invisible unit, and put the lineright over the invisible unit.

The non-invisible unit would get a chance to Jink, in this scenario.

However, a reasonable person could read the Death Ray rule and just decide that Choosing a Target is not applicable to the Death Ray, and they'd also be correct, because if you read the rule, targetting is not in fact applicable. The question is whether or not this rule supercedes the Shooting Sequence Step 2 to Choose a Target.

The Snap Fire isn't the issue, the Sequence is:
In order to reach the point where one Nominates the Weapon to be Fired, one has to follow all the prior steps. I do not have them memorized just yet, but I do believe one of the steps prior to Selecting a Weapon is that the Firing Unit must Nominate which Target it is going to be Firing upon. This makes it impossible to use the Weapon to deny a Unit a Jinx save, as the Target would still have to be Nominated and it is at this point Jinx occurs, but as the other thread pointed out there are loopholes that can be exploited if there is a Secondary Unit is close enough to the desired target.

As for the Invisible Unit, I definitely do not know the Rule for that one so I will simply ask:
Does it prevent you from Targeting the Unit unless the Weapon Snap Shots, or does it prevent the unit from being Hit by Weapons which have not been Fired as Snap Shots?

I believe invisibility prevents you from "shooting at" an enemy unit with anything but snapshots.

When I looked into the subject issue further, I found out that in the "Choose a Target" step of the Shooting Sequence, there is actually no requirement to select a unit within range. Only requirement at this Step is Line of Sight.

So you could

1) Choose unit to fire (Doom Scythe)
2) Choose a target (anything within Line of Sight f the Doom Scythe)
3) Select a Weapon (at this point, Death Ray firing mechanics take over, because the actions taken in this step just do not apply to a Death Ray after the weapon selection)

So, pick anything you can see, then shoot the Death Ray any way you want, nominating Point A, Point B, rolling 3D6, drawing a line, etc.

Or, and this is what I intend to do to avoid silliness, just skip the Choose a Target step, because it is only a formaility when firing with the Death Ray.

 jasper76 wrote:
I believe invisibility prevents you from "shooting at" an enemy unit with anything but snapshots.

When I looked into the subject issue further, I found out that in the "Choose a Target" step of the Shooting Sequence, there is actually no requirement to select a unit within range. Only requirement at this Step is Line of Sight.

So you could

1) Choose unit to fire (Doom Scythe)
2) Choose a target (anything within Line of Sight f the Doom Scythe)
3) Select a Weapon (at this point, Death Ray firing mechanics take over, because the actions taken in this step just do not apply to a Death Ray after the weapon selection)

So, pick anything you can see, then shoot the Death Ray any way you want, nominating Point A, Point B, rolling 3D6, drawing a line, etc.

Or, and this is what I intend to do to avoid silliness, just skip the Choose a Target step, because it is only a formaility when firing with the Death Ray.

I don't have a Necron Codex, so I don't know the answer to this... but doesn't the Doom Scythe have a Tesla weapon as well? If so, you cannot skip the choose a target, because you do need to have a valid target in case you want to shoot that weapon too. If it doesn't then the whole situation becomes a lot more sticky... i.e. what do you do when the only weapon you have uses, non traditional targeting?

Actually, the Tesla Desturctor has to fire at a unit that the Death Ray actually hits if it is fired in the same Shooting Phase as the Death Ray.

So since its possible that the Death Ray will hit nothing, the Tesla Destructor cannot target a unit until after a successful hit by a Death Ray has been scored.

 jasper76 wrote:
Actually, the Tesla Desturctor has to fire at a unit that the Death Ray actually hits if it is fired in the same Shooting Phase as the Death Ray.

So since its possible that the Death Ray will hit nothing, the Tesla Destructor cannot target a unit until after a successful hit by a Death Ray has been scored.

Really? Well that just makes things all sorts of complicated, because if that is the case... then RAW would mean, you have to declare a target, and then fire the Death Ray, and if your Death Ray doesn't hit the unit you claimed as your target, then your Tesla Destructor wouldn't be able to fire at all...

chanceafs wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Actually, the Tesla Desturctor has to fire at a unit that the Death Ray actually hits if it is fired in the same Shooting Phase as the Death Ray.

So since its possible that the Death Ray will hit nothing, the Tesla Destructor cannot target a unit until after a successful hit by a Death Ray has been scored.

Really? Well that just makes things all sorts of complicated, because if that is the case... then RAW would mean, you have to declare a target, and then fire the Death Ray, and if your Death Ray doesn't hit the unit you claimed as your target, then your Tesla Destructor wouldn't be able to fire at all...

Not really...the Death Ray rule in the codex clearly tells you how you must go about targetting a unit with a non-Death Ray weapon if you want to fire it in the same shooting phase. It just comes later in the Shooting Sequence than the Rulebook states. In this case at least, I think the rules are clear in that you wait until after you fire the Death Ray to nominate a target for the Tesla Destructor.

You can hit your own models with a Death Ray. All models under the line are hit. You cannot target your own models therefore Death Rays don't target.

 Mythra wrote:
You can hit your own models with a Death Ray. All models under the line are hit. You cannot target your own models therefore Death Rays don't target.

By that logic blast weapons wouldn't target either but they do. You can hit your own team with blast scatter, but a target is still required.

HIWPI
(im speaking as a necron player here as well)

If the Doomscythe wishes to fire its Deathray it must follow the normal rules for choosing a target, and a caveat is added to the Death-rays rules, whereby 'some section of the line must cross over at least 1 model in the targeted unit". (In the event of fliers this would then still apply, but the line still does not cause the flier to get hit, so it may jink-evade the tesla destructor if it wants, but will be fully avoided by the deathray, even though underneath some point on the line must still intersect with it).

____

However RAW there is no targeting involved at all, so the Deathray's rules should supercede the core rulebook (even though that creates utter mess).

You're missing the point that you can voluntarily hit your own troops with the Death Ray which you can't do with blast weapons. Also blast weapons must specifically target an enemy unit.

1. Death ray does not target enemy units, Snapshots only work against enemy units that are targetted.

2. Invisiblity grants Snapshot but due to 1, Death rays stay unaffected.

/thread

Anything else is HYWPI, which is perfectly fine too, as long as you tell it to your opponent beforehand.

That appears to be the RAW of it.

Though, I do wonder what they're going to change it to once the new FAQ hits.
(anybody have any clue whenabouts that might be coming? After Ork codex drops seem reasonable?)

Not sure if FW is even doing FAQs anymore. They STILL haven't released a FAQ for 7th yet.