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Looking for some constructive feedback on the list. I know assault suffers in general and I have no anti-air, but I'm looking for other weaknesses I may have over looked.

+ HQ +

* Chaos Lord (205pts)
Daemonheart, Gift of mutation, Juggernaut of Khorne, Mark of Khorne, Sigil of corruption, Bolt Pistol, Blade of the Relentless

* Dark Apostle (115pts)
Bolt Pistol, Mark of Khorne, Power Maul, Sigil of Corruption

+ Troops +

* Chaos Space Marines (345pts)
19x Chaos Space Marine with CCW, Icon of wrath, Mark of Khorne
* Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Weapon

* Chaos Space Marines (195pts)
9x Chaos Space Marine with CCW, Icon of wrath, Mark of Khorne
* Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Power Weapon

+ Fast Attack +

* Chaos Bikers (175pts)
4x Chaos Biker, Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne, 2x Meltagun
* Chaos Biker Champion
Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon

+ Heavy Support +

* Maulerfiend (125pts)
Magma cutters

* Maulerfiend (125pts)
Magma cutters

* Maulerfiend (125pts)
Magma cutters

+ Helcult Formation +

* Helbrute (110pts)
Reaper autocannon
* Power fist
Combi-bolter

* Chaos Cultists (165pts)
Champion's upgrade, 3x Flamer, 35x Squad models

* Chaos Cultists (165pts)
Champion's upgrade, 3x Flamer, 35x Squad models

Cultist squads should be 167 each if you're upgrading the champion with a shotgun.

.. no shotgun, its just the way battlescribe does it.

I like it ... I would love to run the infantry blob, but I'd worry they;d die too fast. :(

I feel, that in today's meta, all that CSM has going for it is fast assault (and maybe Nurgle lists). You want to be fast, fast, fast and all in on the attack except for some troops on objective duty.

You have plenty of cultists for objectives. The CSM blob might better serve you better carved up into MSUs in rhinos or as more fast assault. A blob can't catch skimmers and is an easy target.

I like Maulerfiends myself but I still find them getting popped in opening turns by shooty armies (at least in 7th they don't blow up nearly as much). Obviously, the more fast assault saturation you have the more likely the fiends can make it to the enemy.

I don't know about the Hellbrute? I am not familiar with that formation but I think it gives the cultists Fearless?

And about the Blade of the Relentless. I've read reports of people using it saying it takes too long to get powered up. Going LC/PF is probably the better option for the Juggerlord since you can't get the axe of blind fury.

I disagree with the powered-up length of Blade of the Relentless. You should be powering up enough after your first round of combat.

I do agree with breaking down the big blob into smaller MSUs, though. And get rid of the Apostle and spend the points on something else.

(Also, consider Lasher Tendrils on the Maulerfiends, depending on local meta.)

As a fellow CSM player, I feel the pain expressed in these comments. Our codex is utterly broken, as it was written by a moron, Phil Kelly (seriously, [MOD EDIT - Don't try 'workarounds' for the Expletive Filter - Alpharius]).

Personally, I would consider dropping all the marines. I hate CSM marines, they are comically terrible. If you want to play blob tactics with MEQs buy a space marines codex and do counts as with your models. CSM MEQs are a complete waste when compared to their counter parts. A COMPLETE WASTE! Really, your only viable options are to go all CSMs (which, as I said above, is better done by just playing space marines) or massive amounts of cultists. I prefer cultists, because at least I am not tying up hundreds of points in a unit that won't earn them back. You could always gor plague marines or noise (which are still our best options), but poison got nerfed, so PMs aren't as great, and both of them cost too many points, imho. Dammit I hate the CSM codex.

Anyways, I have a 2k list which is two CAD. I take two sorcerers, 4 units of cultists, 2-3 maulerfiends, 6-8 obliterators, 2-3 heldrakes, 2-3 helbrutes. I am also playing with Huron, and infiltrating the obliterators as that can be nasty nasty. If you want to go pure CSM, try something like this. There are plenty of ways to be straight up in your opponent's face.

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
As a fellow CSM player, I feel the pain expressed in these comments. Our codex is utterly broken, as it was written by a moron, Phil Kelly (seriously, [MOD EDIT - Don't try 'workarounds' for the Expletive Filter - Alpharius]).

Personally, I would consider dropping all the marines. I hate CSM marines, they are comically terrible. If you want to play blob tactics with MEQs buy a space marines codex and do counts as with your models. CSM MEQs are a complete waste when compared to their counter parts. A COMPLETE WASTE! Really, your only viable options are to go all CSMs (which, as I said above, is better done by just playing space marines) or massive amounts of cultists. I prefer cultists, because at least I am not tying up hundreds of points in a unit that won't earn them back. You could always gor plague marines or noise (which are still our best options), but poison got nerfed, so PMs aren't as great, and both of them cost too many points, imho. Dammit I hate the CSM codex.

Anyways, I have a 2k list which is two CAD. I take two sorcerers, 4 units of cultists, 2-3 maulerfiends, 6-8 obliterators, 2-3 heldrakes, 2-3 helbrutes. I am also playing with Huron, and infiltrating the obliterators as that can be nasty nasty. If you want to go pure CSM, try something like this. There are plenty of ways to be straight up in your opponent's face.

Well, someone's angry.

I had a nice long chat with Phil a year back, he's actually a really cool guy, and he actually had constraints when working on the 'dex, so don't fault him for everything. He wrote the old Chaos 'dex with Legions in them, Witch/Daemonhunters, I believe the first Necron 'dex and IG too. But this was all before you started, so I don't fault you.. He's had some stunning work, so chill out.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
As a fellow CSM player, I feel the pain expressed in these comments. Our codex is utterly broken, as it was written by a moron, Phil Kelly (seriously, [MOD EDIT - Don't try 'workarounds' for the Expletive Filter - Alpharius]).

Personally, I would consider dropping all the marines. I hate CSM marines, they are comically terrible. If you want to play blob tactics with MEQs buy a space marines codex and do counts as with your models. CSM MEQs are a complete waste when compared to their counter parts. A COMPLETE WASTE! Really, your only viable options are to go all CSMs (which, as I said above, is better done by just playing space marines) or massive amounts of cultists. I prefer cultists, because at least I am not tying up hundreds of points in a unit that won't earn them back. You could always gor plague marines or noise (which are still our best options), but poison got nerfed, so PMs aren't as great, and both of them cost too many points, imho. Dammit I hate the CSM codex.

Anyways, I have a 2k list which is two CAD. I take two sorcerers, 4 units of cultists, 2-3 maulerfiends, 6-8 obliterators, 2-3 heldrakes, 2-3 helbrutes. I am also playing with Huron, and infiltrating the obliterators as that can be nasty nasty. If you want to go pure CSM, try something like this. There are plenty of ways to be straight up in your opponent's face.

Well, someone's angry.

I had a nice long chat with Phil a year back, he's actually a really cool guy, and he actually had constraints when working on the 'dex, so don't fault him for everything. He wrote the old Chaos 'dex with Legions in them, Witch/Daemonhunters, I believe the first Necron 'dex and IG too. But this was all before you started, so I don't fault you.. He's had some stunning work, so chill out.

Was he constrained to make defilers 50% more costly than they should, helbrutes cost near the same as the SM counterparts, yet not have as many rules, make CSMs the worst MEQ choice in the 40k world (possibly the worst troop choice in general), to make the T-Sons twice as expensive as they should be, the HQs almost all over costed, Mutilators a terrible unusable unit, possessed utterly worthless, or the like?

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
As a fellow CSM player, I feel the pain expressed in these comments. Our codex is utterly broken, as it was written by a moron, Phil Kelly (seriously, [MOD EDIT - Don't try 'workarounds' for the Expletive Filter - Alpharius]).

Personally, I would consider dropping all the marines. I hate CSM marines, they are comically terrible. If you want to play blob tactics with MEQs buy a space marines codex and do counts as with your models. CSM MEQs are a complete waste when compared to their counter parts. A COMPLETE WASTE! Really, your only viable options are to go all CSMs (which, as I said above, is better done by just playing space marines) or massive amounts of cultists. I prefer cultists, because at least I am not tying up hundreds of points in a unit that won't earn them back. You could always gor plague marines or noise (which are still our best options), but poison got nerfed, so PMs aren't as great, and both of them cost too many points, imho. Dammit I hate the CSM codex.

Anyways, I have a 2k list which is two CAD. I take two sorcerers, 4 units of cultists, 2-3 maulerfiends, 6-8 obliterators, 2-3 heldrakes, 2-3 helbrutes. I am also playing with Huron, and infiltrating the obliterators as that can be nasty nasty. If you want to go pure CSM, try something like this. There are plenty of ways to be straight up in your opponent's face.

Well, someone's angry.

I had a nice long chat with Phil a year back, he's actually a really cool guy, and he actually had constraints when working on the 'dex, so don't fault him for everything. He wrote the old Chaos 'dex with Legions in them, Witch/Daemonhunters, I believe the first Necron 'dex and IG too. But this was all before you started, so I don't fault you.. He's had some stunning work, so chill out.

Was he constrained to make defilers 50% more costly than they should, helbrutes cost near the same as the SM counterparts, yet not have as many rules, make CSMs the worst MEQ choice in the 40k world (possibly the worst troop choice in general), to make the T-Sons twice as expensive as they should be, the HQs almost all over costed, Mutilators a terrible unusable unit, possessed utterly worthless, or the like?

He had design constraints based on the fact that it was the first 'dex of 6th. It was the 'dex that the rest of the 6th ed 'dexes would be held up against and compared to. Every book has its good units and bad units. I'm not even going to go through the ones you've listed, because aside from rare exceptions like Mutilators, the others have redeeming factors about them. Again, no one's forcing you to play Chaos, it's not like you've played them since 3rd Ed like me, you started in 6th, mentioned that in another thread. You can always play something else, or not play 40k at all. Shrug.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Nuln_Oil wrote:
As a fellow CSM player, I feel the pain expressed in these comments. Our codex is utterly broken, as it was written by a moron, Phil Kelly (seriously, [MOD EDIT - Don't try 'workarounds' for the Expletive Filter - Alpharius]).

Personally, I would consider dropping all the marines. I hate CSM marines, they are comically terrible. If you want to play blob tactics with MEQs buy a space marines codex and do counts as with your models. CSM MEQs are a complete waste when compared to their counter parts. A COMPLETE WASTE! Really, your only viable options are to go all CSMs (which, as I said above, is better done by just playing space marines) or massive amounts of cultists. I prefer cultists, because at least I am not tying up hundreds of points in a unit that won't earn them back. You could always gor plague marines or noise (which are still our best options), but poison got nerfed, so PMs aren't as great, and both of them cost too many points, imho. Dammit I hate the CSM codex.

Anyways, I have a 2k list which is two CAD. I take two sorcerers, 4 units of cultists, 2-3 maulerfiends, 6-8 obliterators, 2-3 heldrakes, 2-3 helbrutes. I am also playing with Huron, and infiltrating the obliterators as that can be nasty nasty. If you want to go pure CSM, try something like this. There are plenty of ways to be straight up in your opponent's face.

Well, someone's angry.

I had a nice long chat with Phil a year back, he's actually a really cool guy, and he actually had constraints when working on the 'dex, so don't fault him for everything. He wrote the old Chaos 'dex with Legions in them, Witch/Daemonhunters, I believe the first Necron 'dex and IG too. But this was all before you started, so I don't fault you.. He's had some stunning work, so chill out.

Was he constrained to make defilers 50% more costly than they should, helbrutes cost near the same as the SM counterparts, yet not have as many rules, make CSMs the worst MEQ choice in the 40k world (possibly the worst troop choice in general), to make the T-Sons twice as expensive as they should be, the HQs almost all over costed, Mutilators a terrible unusable unit, possessed utterly worthless, or the like?

He had design constraints based on the fact that it was the first 'dex of 6th. It was the 'dex that the rest of the 6th ed 'dexes would be held up against and compared to. Every book has its good units and bad units. I'm not even going to go through the ones you've listed, because aside from rare exceptions like Mutilators, the others have redeeming factors about them. Again, no one's forcing you to play Chaos, it's not like you've played them since 3rd Ed like me, you started in 6th, mentioned that in another thread. You can always play something else, or not play 40k at all. Shrug.

Thank you for the unsolicited advice. If re read my comments perhaps you'll see I'm not asking for any advice. Also, since you're keeping up on my previous posts elsewhere, then you would know I've been playing a different army. I have also stopped buying GW products as people like Phil Kelly write books that suck from the outset and get worse with time. I came on here to give the poster some advice, not for some of my own. Thanks but no thanks.

I started in 5th ed n they only had 1 usable list, and it was double prince with lash of ssubmission with blast template weapons. Plague spam was a good alternative but not overpowered. 6th ed came as long and chaos got boned as that turkey gave us so much grief being the mvp. Now we are in 7th ed, turkey has a broken neck and all the new dexes will take advantage of 7th ed exploits. I dont have to play chaos or not at all but seeing my army lose all value is disappointing. U going to say it happens to everyone so deal with it? That dont answer nothing because nobody wants to buy my army full of useless defilers, thousand sons (of b). Khorne berserkers, chosen, possesed, rhinos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 1 bright idea that could have made chaos enjoyable was rhinos full of suicide bomber cultists strapped with demolition charges. U disembark but they cant charge or run already anyways since rhinos are not assault vehicles n that would have balanced them.

 Filch wrote:
I started in 5th ed n they only had 1 usable list, and it was double prince with lash of ssubmission with blast template weapons. Plague spam was a good alternative but not overpowered. 6th ed came as long and chaos got boned as that turkey gave us so much grief being the mvp. Now we are in 7th ed, turkey has a broken neck and all the new dexes will take advantage of 7th ed exploits. I dont have to play chaos or not at all but seeing my army lose all value is disappointing. U going to say it happens to everyone so deal with it? That dont answer nothing because nobody wants to buy my army full of useless defilers, thousand sons (of b). Khorne berserkers, chosen, possesed, rhinos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 1 bright idea that could have made chaos enjoyable was rhinos full of suicide bomber cultists strapped with demolition charges. U disembark but they cant charge or run already anyways since rhinos are not assault vehicles n that would have balanced them.

You're not allowed to make any points when talking to Enigwolf because he/she has been playing since third edition so your opinions are trumped by his/her knowledge.

 Filch wrote:
I started in 5th ed n they only had 1 usable list, and it was double prince with lash of ssubmission with blast template weapons. Plague spam was a good alternative but not overpowered. 6th ed came as long and chaos got boned as that turkey gave us so much grief being the mvp. Now we are in 7th ed, turkey has a broken neck and all the new dexes will take advantage of 7th ed exploits. I dont have to play chaos or not at all but seeing my army lose all value is disappointing. U going to say it happens to everyone so deal with it? That dont answer nothing because nobody wants to buy my army full of useless defilers, thousand sons (of b). Khorne berserkers, chosen, possesed, rhinos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 1 bright idea that could have made chaos enjoyable was rhinos full of suicide bomber cultists strapped with demolition charges. U disembark but they cant charge or run already anyways since rhinos are not assault vehicles n that would have balanced them.

I do agree that 5th ed Chaos sucked, which happened to be the time I took a hiatus from 40k as a result. You and I have had older armies, we're completely justified in complaining about it losing value. I've got two Defilers myself I stripped and broke apart for bits eventually. My point to Nuln_Oil is that, if you've just started, you really have no basis to complain, since you could've started with another army.

In any case, this will be my last post on this thread, since we're so far off-topic now.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 Filch wrote:
I started in 5th ed n they only had 1 usable list, and it was double prince with lash of ssubmission with blast template weapons. Plague spam was a good alternative but not overpowered. 6th ed came as long and chaos got boned as that turkey gave us so much grief being the mvp. Now we are in 7th ed, turkey has a broken neck and all the new dexes will take advantage of 7th ed exploits. I dont have to play chaos or not at all but seeing my army lose all value is disappointing. U going to say it happens to everyone so deal with it? That dont answer nothing because nobody wants to buy my army full of useless defilers, thousand sons (of b). Khorne berserkers, chosen, possesed, rhinos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 1 bright idea that could have made chaos enjoyable was rhinos full of suicide bomber cultists strapped with demolition charges. U disembark but they cant charge or run already anyways since rhinos are not assault vehicles n that would have balanced them.

I do agree that 5th ed Chaos sucked, which happened to be the time I took a hiatus from 40k as a result. You and I have had older armies, we're completely justified in complaining about it losing value. I've got two Defilers myself I stripped and broke apart for bits eventually. My point to Nuln_Oil is that, if you've just started, you really have no basis to complain, since you could've started with another army.

In any case, this will be my last post on this thread, since we're so far off-topic now.

I'll bet. You get off topic. QQ when someone calls you out for it. Then bounce. Lol. You always know someone is knee deep in terrible arguments when they resort to the "I've been playing longer, so I am right." Take care and keep running away from your losing arguments.

We'll leave this particular tangent there then.

personal attacks and cheap digs really don't achieve anything.