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Hello Dakka,

So I currently play Chaos Space Marines and I have finally decided on my final list for CSM. (Also have DoA Blood Angels, but they havent been legal since 5th without modifying the list)

So I would like some input that will help me pick my 7th Ed army.

What I am looking for is an army that has good internal choice balance across the FoC. Ideally I would like to not have to take allies with this new army unless it was a pure fluffy thing. In addition to the good internal balance of units, I would prefer a non-evil or at least neutral army. I like to have a balance of armies so I can pick an army that is opposite my opponent.

I enjoy CC and ranged fighting, still learning about the new psychic phase in 7th, so I dont really have a preference in regards to that.

So anyone have any suggestions on what codex might be something for me?
Thanks Dakka!

- Strig

Wait for the Ork Codex, see if you likey...

Chances are, with orkz, GW might actually make a well rounded enjoyable codex.

The two codecies with the best internal balance are Eldar and Space Marines. They both have options for what you are looking for as far as not needing allies, good psykers, and a diverse amount of builds (although with Eldar less effective CC ability).

Astra Millitarium is probably another candidate here, but doesn't really do CC.

Cheers!

Thank you guys for the fast responses!

I am looking forward to the Ork book, I hope its good! So Eldar and SM uh? and IG err whatever they are called now lol. I think I will look at the Eldar first to see if I like the models, haven't seen much of their new stuff. Is the space marine book just the Ultra-marines? I would prefer not to do smurfs if possible - would I need to buy digital dataslates for the other chapters (like Salamanders and what not)?

Thanks! I would love to hear more suggestions as well!

Yeah, I was going to say Space Marines as well. I have no idea how they fare in 7th, as I'm kind of refusing to play 7th just now, but I can say that Codex: Space Marines is very balanced.

Lots of people are going to look at the neat stuff you can do and complain that it's overpowered or the rules are bad, but if you look deeper into the book you'll find that everything has a price and nothing is auto-take or auto-lose. The Orbital Bombardment is one of my favourite powers, and it is both expensive and difficult to use properly. I get flakk for it all the time because it's a str10 ap1 large blast, but it also scatters a full 2d6, is one use only and only the Chapter Master can use it. Most of the Snowflakes in the codex can't even claim to be able to call in an Orbital! Recently I got a bit of heat because I managed to waste 6 termies with one Orbital in turn 3 and then I charged that same squad and wiped them out in the following assault phase. This seems ridiculously overpowered but in reality it was a huge gamble because I was well within 12" of the target and there was a damn good chance that I was going to nuke my own CM!

Sorry to drift but the Orbital is just one prime example of really awesome stuff that you can do with SM. You never have to feel bad about having overpowered win button units because they simply don't exist.

The only gripe I have about SM right now is that it is kind of hard to get a decent ranged HQ. The only guy who can really reach out and touch someone is the MOTF with Conversion Beamer, and even then he's kinda meh...

You dont need to buy dataslates to do other chapters, there are rules for them in the codex.

That said, I recommend eldar too - they have many viable ways of playing the game (including bikers as troops without an HQ requirement).

Oh great! I like the idea of the data slates, but for iconic chapters I am glad they are just included in the book.

So another for Eldar! So we are still looking at Eldar, Space Marines, and new Orks depending on how the book turns out.

So some quick Eldar questions:
I do like the idea of bikes as troops without needing to unlock them - is the learning curve for Eldar very steep? I don't think they have 3+ armor saves like my chaos marines, but to be fair, I roll really poorly. Not really complaining anymore about it, its just funny because I draw crowds to watch me fail rolls lol. So if Eldar are a lower armor save my success rate will be similar lol.

Also, how do Eldar fair with the new psychic phase? Most of my buddies play stuff with a fair amount of warp charges, so can eldar handle dispelling? (sorry I am fantasy player lol) How about mounting good psychic phases of our own?

Some quick questions about the Space Marines:
I have recently played against a list with Calgar and Tiggy - it was a really hard fought game (I may have dedicated my Chaos Land Raider and Kharn over to where Calgar was, really wanted a challenge with him heh). Can Space Marines work without taking the named folk? Its not that I think they are overpowered (havent played many of them) just don't want to be tied to a named guy each game if I want to try a different set up.

I saw a really well painted drop pod army of some flavor of space marines (it wasnt blood angels or space wolves) not sure what rules he used though, Anyone have thoughts on what Space Marine chapter from the Space marine codex can do a good pod army?

I have some questions about Orks, but those are based off the old book which I have and a very small number of models (AoBR). So I will hold off till the new codex drops.

Thanks everyone, this information is great!
- Strig

Dark eldar has awesome internal choice balance. Almost every unit in the codex is viable.

Alot of eldar units are actually 3+ armor (bikes, striking scorpions, wraiths, spiders and more). The rest are usually 4+ armor, they are pretty well armored.

Eldar arent that complicated on a unit basis, but they have alot of very specialized units, so its about finding a balance to deal with everything.

Eldar get cheap lvl 3 psykers + warlocks who are level 1 psykers who work like wolf guard (can join guardian units or just be a unit by themselves), they are one of the better psychic armies. In an Iyanden army you can bring 23 warp charge in 1 FOC, but it gets pricy.

Marines do just fine without special characters, atleast if you dont want to dominate the psychic phase (tiggy is pretty badass). You can build your own chapter master with great gear to make him a badass in combat.

You dont really need to play a specific chapter to do a good pod army, they can all do it just fine.

I had no idea Eldar could get a fair amount of 3+ saves! Who knows, I might roll better keeping Eldar alive than my poor World Eaters lol.

That's good to hear about the Space Marines not "needing" the special characters to make the army work. And between my Blood angels and World Eaters I could probably proxy a decent point size army for testing.

For the Eldar:
Would picking up an HQ and the battle box be a decent way to start? I know some battle boxes are better than others, but if the army has good internal balance the Eldar Battle Box should be worth the money right?

If I was looking to make an 1850-2000 point eldar army, that was shooting and psychic oriented, anyone have suggestions on what kind of HQ or craftworld would be a good fit for that style?

Thanks for all the input!
- Strig

For Eldar, a number of their Elite troops sport 3+s, but they're usually the specialists (or jetbikes). Most are 4+. Guardians are 5+. Aside from Wraiths, they're also T3. Aside from Wraiths, they are much less survivable than Marines (troops are mostly t3 4+ or 5+), at mostly the same cost (except for the 5+ guys).

Outside Wraiths and gravtanks, Eldar are quite squishy, but excel at what each unit does. Don't underestimate the gap between t3 and t4.

That being said, if you're still interested, pick a style. There is a thread in Tactics similar to this one.

(If you like bikes that aren't great in melee, Sam-hain is probably what you're looking for)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I meant here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/599976.page#6926632

Eldar are pretty squishy, thats true. But they can do alot more damage than a regular marine too.

The battleforce is a great start purchase, I use the vypers with bright lances for a very cheap and mobile anti tank shooter.

Guardians are almost always useful for camping objectives, and they can move and shoot with the heavy weapon on the platform.

The dire avengers are great and the wave serpent is super.

Eldar can get 3+ armor in every slot, but its true, they have several 4+ units and guardians are 5+ armor. Guardians are cheap as chips though, considering they get 2 shots each with semi-rending at BS 4 with battle focus.

How is it no one has mentioned Necrons? Great internal balance IMO. Book is one of the older books, and still holds up very well.

Wraiths, D lords and chariot lords bring the CC smackdown, arguably the second best transport in the game (waveserpent is pretty nice) Dedicated transport fliers, cheap and effective heavy gun units, and plenty of little fun units like death and despair.

Plus, necrons don't give an undead metal crap about destroying a vehicle on a +7, glance everything to death!

Thank you again for the input, especially about the battle box!

@Gwarsh41 - I think people left aside Necrons because I was trying to avoid another "evil" army. I am unsure of the updated fluff from the new 'Cron dex, but totally judging a book by its cover here, they appear to be evil aligned if not "destroy all life" aligned.

My idea is that I want to have an even break between good and evil armies, depending on what my opponent wants to play. I don't want to play my Blood Angels against Space Wolves. So I already have Blood and Angels (although the only BA things I have were an entire DoA list, which cant work in current ed.) and my World Eaters. So I was leaning towards Eldar, unless I am mistaken on the Necron fluff?

I just picked up the Eldar codex and I am still reading through it, but I would love if anyone had some suggestions to supplement the battlebox? Because I am not sure what kind of army I want it to be just yet, are there any suggestions that would be beneficial to buy early on (like the battle box) that could lend itself to a few different types of lists?

Thanks everyone!
- Strig

 gwarsh41 wrote:
How is it no one has mentioned Necrons? Great internal balance IMO. Book is one of the older books, and still holds up very well.

Wraiths, D lords and chariot lords bring the CC smackdown, arguably the second best transport in the game (waveserpent is pretty nice) Dedicated transport fliers, cheap and effective heavy gun units, and plenty of little fun units like death and despair.

Plus, necrons don't give an undead metal crap about destroying a vehicle on a +7, glance everything to death!

Couldn't have said it better myself, good sir.