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The above rule makes it impossible to have a Defiler shoot or be shot at, since the legal reference isn't present. Every time my opponent tries to shoot with it, I'll ask for a range check, and my opponent won't be able to oblige since the rules say that ranges for Walkers are measured to and from the base.

Actually, that makes an excellent argument for 3-Defiler VP-denial Chaos; sure, they can't hurt the enemy, but they can't be hurt either (no legal reference point to check range to).

Man another dumb ass argument when common sence says measure from the body. but good luck and keep argueing

Respectfully,

The defiler is a vehicle, subclassed as walkers.
Vehicles are covered so you can follow this rule-from the hull
the subset of walkers with bases is also covered-from the base.
However, the defiler is without a base, therefor it reverts to the generic vehicle category.

This is the argument of the simplest course, else everyone now has to create the largest bases in GW history.
Thats ma story and i'm stickin' to it

Well I think measureing from a base makes sense. Thats why when I played against dreadnaught players I always count a scatter as long as hole is over the base as full strength +2D6.

This is because the base represents the body. It makes more sense to have the defiler on a base. Now Im just waiting for players to mount it on a 1 inch base LOL. This ends a lot of confusion. The defiler takes up the space on the base. No more, no less.

@jfrazel. How does it follow vehicle category but has wepn skill and can assault.

Because, absent reviewing the codex at work when I should be making evil rich people more rich, I do believe walkers are discussed in the vehicles section.

I personally dont volunteer my list, but certainly answer questions if someone has it for me. I try to model everything WYSIWYG, but that is not always 100% possible, so if I am not WYSIWYG I will tell my oppenent. It never really is fun when your enemy knows what your units/wargear are before the game, because it leads to him creating a strategy based on your specific army, not the army type in general.

As a rule of thumb, however, whenever I play against players who can have some nasty stuff (ie chaos), I always try to politely ask who are the icon bearers in the army. Sometimes they are not as easily identifiable as one would like, and since they really should be, it is nice to know what is going on.

In personal experience, politely asking about certain things never harms the game, unless the a 100% metagaming question (so which mob in that giant mob of mutants has the powerfist?)

Posted By blue loki on 11/30/2006 12:21 PM
Considering the FAQ writer is addressing a quesiton specifically about skimmers, I think its safe to assume that Defilers didn't enter his consideration when the made the broad generalization that walker distances are measured to/from the base.

Having said that, if the above quoted ruling is word-for-word from an approved FAQ, then GW simply made another blunder and Defilers now indeed do require a base per RAW, but only if you want to measure any distances to/from it.

What base to use? Well, as the BGB clearly states, a model may use any base bigger than or equal to the one it is supplied from. As a Defiler is not supplied with a base, the minimum size base required for a Defiler is therefore any shape you choose with a surface area of 0".


I suggest we drop this tom-foolery and treat a Defiler just like any other non-based vehicle.

Wait a minute.  If that is your arguement,  One time I got a heavy weapons box with only two bases.  Therefore the other two models do not require one.  Those should be my heroes'.  Now they are invincible.  !!!!!!

It's not an argument, it's a fact. The BGB tells us that a model may use a base greater or equal to the one that is supplied with it.

Yes, if GW screws up the packaging then all kinds of strange things happen as there is no definition of what model uses what base other than this. (as opposed to WM/Hordes where the base size is an defined attribute of the model)

If your dread comes with a single infantry base or if your space marine sgt comes with a dread base, and you're determined to exploit this rule, then that is the minimum size base that you can use for that model.


It's printed in black and white in the BGB, how do you not know this rule?

Posted By blue loki on 12/01/2006 6:11 AM
It's not an argument, it's a fact. The BGB tells us that a model may use a base greater or equal to the one that is supplied with it.

Yes, if GW screws up the packaging then all kinds of strange things happen as there is no definition of what model uses what base other than this. (as opposed to WM/Hordes where the base size is an defined attribute of the model)

If your dread comes with a single infantry base or if your space marine sgt comes with a dread base, and you're determined to exploit this rule, then that is the minimum size base that you can use for that model.


It's printed in black and white in the BGB, how do you not know this rule?

Its also been beaten to DEATH here on dakka.