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focusedfire wrote:
I hate to argue but under their listing sniper drones are just infantry. It's because the drones take on the characteristics of their controller. This is per conversation with GW 1year ago before they shut down the phone support. If its changed I'd love to know.

You are unfortunately correct, they are "as owner" in the dex', meaning despite being jet, they are just infantry because the controller is. That's a shame!

What about using XM8s with twin-linked Flamers? You ignore the cover save, reroll wounds and if you don't load the unit out with extras it is not expensive at all. Now, I grant that if charged they will be wiped out, so use a line of gun drones as a shield to jump behind during the Tau assault. It can be even more damaging if you include a Failsafe detonator on the Ui.

As an alternative/addition equip a squadron of Piranhas with Fusion Blasters and Flechette Dischargers. Heck, any vehicle with Flechettes can do a number on them as toughness is irrelevant as written.

Sniper Drones are a little to static for the list I like to play, with Tau I love the mobility and the ability to jump and skim about the board. SD teams seem to do well for static gun-line Tau but are still vulnerable to being overwhelmed too easily in my view.

The problem is that the Tau are light on ap 3, 2, and 1 slots outside of the crisis suits. You need these against other lists. I've said it before. Its a bad idea to build an army with just one other army in mind. Build with the tactics you want to use against a variety of armies.

Now the tactic of hopscotching crisis and gun drones is a good one. It helps with the one weakness of flamer suits but, its not fool proof. One or two ranged wounds on the drones and there is a gap to assault around or through.

Since they made assaulting vehicle stupid easy, flechettes are manditory. Tau probably have the best general purpose tank in the game. Its only weakness is its lack of defensive weapons and moving 6" or drones takes care of even that.

Your comment about the drones is dead on.

One thing worth noting, if the controller dies, he unit is dead, so in v5 if SDTs get overloaded with shots on them and you get unlucky the whole unit could die...

Hoarseman wrote:What about using XM8s with twin-linked Flamers? You ignore the cover save, reroll wounds and if you don't load the unit out with extras it is not expensive at all. Now, I grant that if charged they will be wiped out, so use a line of gun drones as a shield to jump behind during the Tau assault. It can be even more damaging if you include a Failsafe detonator on the Ui.

Not going to talk about the failsafe detonator, but lets be generous, and say you hit 7 nobs with each template. That's 21 total hits. 5/9 will wound, so 11.6 wounds. Armor save and FNP means 2.9 get past their saves. Congratulations...you've just done 3 wounds. The nobs will ignore your crisis suits on general principles, and go wipe out your troops and broadsides.

Hoarseman wrote:
As an alternative/addition equip a squadron of Piranhas with Fusion Blasters and Flechette Dischargers. Heck, any vehicle with Flechettes can do a number on them as toughness is irrelevant as written.

Now that's a workable tactic. We can call it the Tau Feeding Frenzy...15 pirahnas with fusion blasters. They'd need targetting arrays and markerlight support to be effective, though. And I think you have to assume that you're going to drop those drone squadrons as soon as you get in range, so they both can shoot. Let's assume you get enough hits to negate the cover save, although with your FA loaded with Pirahnas, markerlights are going to be tough to get.

15 shots, 10 hits, 8 wounds, probably 5-6 killed nobs. Drones add another 1-2 wounds. Flechette is almost certainly worthless. (each model has a 50% chance of taking a wound, followed by a 50% chance of making the armor save, followed by a 50% chance of making the feel no pain save, ending with each biker having a 12.5% chance of actually taking a wound.

You need at least 4 markerlight hits to make it work, because I think you need to up the BS to 5, as well as negate the cover save. scratch that, you don't need to negate the cover save...you need to reduce the cover save to a 5+, to match their invulnerable save. So you need to be able to reliably get 3 markerlight hits (4 if you didn't take targetting arrays).

Flechettes may not do much against the nobs but the average space marine, swooping hawk, or from a variety of other builds its a real nice feature. Especially, with wound allocation, if the squad has only one PF.

Build for the best overall survivability, then work on your tactics.


@Cent, You need more markers than that. Youd need 6 hits a turn just to drop the coversaves for 3 units firing on the same squad(Said it before, markers are over worked in this edition) and thats without boosting the BS.

1750pts doesn't really have enough room for 3 squadrons, maybe 2. That would leave the room for one PF team. This list might actually use the Sniper drones just to get the extra markers.

Don't know where the final 3 markers would be from. Maybe, Broadsides with drone controllers taking an even split of markers and shield. Each pirahna squadron is gonna cost at least 400 pts., just gotta figure points from there

Centurian99 wrote:
Not going to talk about the failsafe detonator, but lets be generous, and say you hit 7 nobs with each template. That's 21 total hits. 5/9 will wound, so 11.6 wounds. Armor save and FNP means 2.9 get past their saves. Congratulations...you've just done 3 wounds. The nobs will ignore your crisis suits on general principles, and go wipe out your troops and broadsides.

Hoarseman wrote:
As an alternative/addition equip a squadron of Piranhas with Fusion Blasters and Flechette Dischargers. Heck, any vehicle with Flechettes can do a number on them as toughness is irrelevant as written.

Now that's a workable tactic. We can call it the Tau Feeding Frenzy...15 pirahnas with fusion blasters. They'd need targetting arrays and markerlight support to be effective, though. And I think you have to assume that you're going to drop those drone squadrons as soon as you get in range, so they both can shoot. Let's assume you get enough hits to negate the cover save, although with your FA loaded with Pirahnas, markerlights are going to be tough to get.

15 shots, 10 hits, 8 wounds, probably 5-6 killed nobs. Drones add another 1-2 wounds. Flechette is almost certainly worthless. (each model has a 50% chance of taking a wound, followed by a 50% chance of making the armor save, followed by a 50% chance of making the feel no pain save, ending with each biker having a 12.5% chance of actually taking a wound.

You need at least 4 markerlight hits to make it work, because I think you need to up the BS to 5, as well as negate the cover save. scratch that, you don't need to negate the cover save...you need to reduce the cover save to a 5+, to match their invulnerable save. So you need to be able to reliably get 3 markerlight hits (4 if you didn't take targetting arrays).

Killing them quickly isn't necessarily the goal, though it does help , with a block of Piranhas you can constantly move in front of the bikers and force them to either spend time to kill of the the Pirs or to go around them and seriously cutting down on their mobility which is part of what makes them so dangerous. The flying bases are large and being fast skimmers the Piranhas can deny large areas to the bikers. If you are able to move at cruising speed each turn they'll be assaulting on 6's. While the Pirs and Bikes are dancing the rest of a Mech Tau can run riot over the rest of the board.

15 pirahnas with fusion guns and arrays is like 80pts a pop. that's 1200pts. What else to you take for the remaining 550pts...you'll only have troops then?

Capt K

@Hoarseman,

I really like and hate this concept. I hate it because I thought I was done buying Tau for 2 years. I like it because my friend just won a tourny with a Black Templar build along these lines.

What do you think? 2 squadrons of pirahna, 2hammerheads, 2 fw squads(1 in fish), maybe one kroot and a pathfindersquad. Sick thing is I can see this build lead by an Ethereal joining one of the fw squads in a devilfish and no crisis suits. Again thank you for the concept and if not to much trouble more of your input pls.

Going back to stealthfields & thier application - also refering to the point raised about the lack of decent ap weapons in general, how about

Special stealthsuit HQ, comes with 2 drones and has 2 fusion blasters. Allows units within 18'' to gain her LD (Right?)

Combine with 2 stealthsuit squads, 6man with 2 fusions & 4 burst cannons per squad. One memeber is upgraded to have bonding knife & 2 shield drones. Possibly have a squad with guns drones (basically close up pinning which is only doable with the carbines) as support system upgrades. Perhaps a 3rd squad or an additon to the second (50pts, atleast if you just get drones - in terms of the drone support system.

I work it out to be roughly 660pts and an infiltratable large amount of dakka with some decent surviveability with a 3+ and stealthfields + JSJ. Wont break easily or route completely. Worth it? 13 stealthsuits, 6 (with possibly 5more gun drones) shield drones, 6 fusion guns and 8 burst cannons.

A burst cannon & fusion gunning crisis dude with 2 shield drones and another 3 burstcannon & fusion suits w/o drones costs the same as the 6 man team.

Sorry thats hard to read. Skip me

sniper teams totally sucks! With most armies being very mobile these days, it's not hard for most of them to get within your stealth field range and boom, your toast!!!

Yes, the sig spreads! R.A.D. was such a fun game.

Nanao Misaki: A childhood friend of the hero. Her grandmother is killed by a Volgara, which lead to her early animosity towards robots. After her grandmother died, she finds herself living on her own and working to support herself. She means well, but had a tendency to overlook her own boundaries and work herself into a severe fatigue. Depending on the player's actions she can either end up being main character's love interest (if the main character is Naoto or Ryo), live a poor life or commit suicide at the end of the story.

OK look. Sniper Teams are a fantastic unit, however they are not for all armies you have to plan for them and support them otherwise yes as people have pointed out they will get isolated and killed. If your motto as a tau player is mobility and finesse then sniper drones are not for you, if you are like me and your motto is more along the lines if I can see it I can kill it with overwhelming firepower then Sniper drones are for you. The best possible application is placed in a multi-story building with no less than 3 full squads of firewarriors a squad of pathfinders and a fireknife team for support. Yah yah I have heard it before blah blah blah nob bikers are gonna eat your babies and pee in your cereal bowl. Bikers can't leave the ground floor of the building making assaulting your pathfinders and sniper drones on the subsequent floors impossible. Against other popular armies however you will do just fine, dual lash you say? how long does a demon prince last with 9 str 6 ap3 shots heading his way? not long I can tell you from experience. Nidzilla you say? I tabled nidzilla several weeks ago with a setup as I have described.

With so many armies moving to an elite approach to warfare to deny kp's , sniper drones increase in value. With people including more and more markerlights to compensate for the value of cover thats more markerlights available to force an auto pin. Sniper drones aren't dead you just have to build a list that makes use of they're strengths, you can't just cobble together any old list and expect them to win. Like real snipers they require support to be effective and like real snipers if supported properly they will pick apart your opponent one shot at a time.

9 Broadsides, 24 pathfinders, 3 warfish (used to carry the min troop choices), 18 firewarriors in 3 units of 6, min priced sha's el, and something else makes a strange yet interesting tau list that can do something to no bikers... but not much else...

Razerous wrote:Going back to stealthfields & thier application - also refering to the point raised about the lack of decent ap weapons in general, how about

Special stealthsuit HQ, comes with 2 drones and has 2 fusion blasters. Allows units within 18'' to gain her LD (Right?)

Combine with 2 stealthsuit squads, 6man with 2 fusions & 4 burst cannons per squad. One memeber is upgraded to have bonding knife & 2 shield drones. Possibly have a squad with guns drones (basically close up pinning which is only doable with the carbines) as support system upgrades. Perhaps a 3rd squad or an additon to the second (50pts, atleast if you just get drones - in terms of the drone support system.

I work it out to be roughly 660pts and an infiltratable large amount of dakka with some decent surviveability with a 3+ and stealthfields + JSJ. Wont break easily or route completely. Worth it? 13 stealthsuits, 6 (with possibly 5more gun drones) shield drones, 6 fusion guns and 8 burst cannons.

A burst cannon & fusion gunning crisis dude with 2 shield drones and another 3 burstcannon & fusion suits w/o drones costs the same as the 6 man team.

Sorry thats hard to read. Skip me

she can't join the unit just so you know.

On top of that the stealth suits aren't all that great when compaired to other options the army has.

Moz wrote:Yes, the sig spreads! R.A.D. was such a fun game.

Nanao Misaki: A childhood friend of the hero. Her grandmother is killed by a Volgara, which lead to her early animosity towards robots. After her grandmother died, she finds herself living on her own and working to support herself. She means well, but had a tendency to overlook her own boundaries and work herself into a severe fatigue. Depending on the player's actions she can either end up being main character's love interest (if the main character is Naoto or Ryo), live a poor life or commit suicide at the end of the story.

lol, i actually have no idea what game dat is :( I originally stole your sig and used it on another forum I frequently use. I've only just rejoined this forum and forgot I originally stole the sig from a poser on here

Just as a possibly useful note that I haven't seen brought up anywhere yet - you only need to reduce the Nob Biker's cover save to 5+, not 6+ or none. This is because they will invariably have cybork bodies, giving them a 5+ invulnerable save anyway. Attempting to reduce their cover beyond 5+ is thus pointless, since they can only take the better of the two anyway.

Therefore, one needs only 1 markerlight hit if they do not turboboost, 2 if they do, to reduce their save. This saves markerlights for seekers and BS boosts, or pinning modifiers if you manage to slip something by. Perhaps intuitive, but I've seen instances of math in this thread that reduces it further, so I thought I would bring it up.

Problem is those marker hits count for only one units shooting. Next unit you have to spend 1 to 2 more hits.
2 firing units spend an entire 8 tau(man) pathfinder squads worth of markerlight hits.
Its gonna take 3 to 4 squads with plas/fusion worth of firing to to weaken the bikers noticeably.

focusedfire wrote:off-topic)@ Karuthers, Your over estimating the shooting effectiveness of the pathfinders or running 2 squads.


Sub- munitions is the way to go. Save markers for cover reduction. The firing comes from 2 different tanks and with the remove whole models your gonna get 3-4 dead bikers per turn with that combo. Unless your scatter really hates you.

Also, 2 hammerheads = price of 3 kitted broadsides. Just what do you do with third heavy slot?


Back on topic) If you want to run the drones go for it. They might fit nicely between 2 hammerheads for the price. Then 2 PF squads of 6, 2fire warrior squads to climb into the PF Devilfish, A kroot squad Flanking w/hounds, and the rest what ever feels right.


Edited for clarity

SKYRAY!

This thread is HORRIBLY off topic. Post of the post are about how to counter NOB BIKERS! I mean, GET ON TOPIC!

dielie wrote:This thread is HORRIBLY off topic. Post of the post are about how to counter NOB BIKERS! I mean, GET ON TOPIC!

And, ironically, you are HORRIBLY bringing back old threads.

Read this.

Also, you are spamming posts without adding content. If you have something to say, feel free to post away, but if you're not adding to the conversation, please do not post. Spamming is against the Dakka Rules (click Rule #1 in my sig to see them).