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Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Yes, let us begin to debate at what point one becomes a "Native" of a region.

"Lase" and "Lasing" are not real words, they have been used, but while working in a metal shop where we used lasers to cut materials, we never, ever, at any time, referred to it as "lasing." It was always "laser cutting" or some such. Looking up "lase" or "lasing" you find "to emit focused/coherent light." So it does exist and have a definition, but it is not specific to LASER in any sense that I have ever heard besides this thread.

Fact still stands, LASER is an acronym which has no proper pronunciation without context.

Just because anyone agrees with anyone, doesn't mean they are correct. Beware the thin line between what is "Correct" and what is "Popular." 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I like the lasgun (pronounced lazgun) over the lazegun (pronounced lazeygun).....
   
Made in us
Doc Brown






Well, Lascannon to me is LAZcannon. The others I can only think... Who cares? I'd rather not worry about how to pronounce a flashlight... In fact, I'd RATHER be armed with a flashlight in war!

"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."

-Excerpt from the Three Hundred and Forty-First

Book of Epistles of Lorgar

Cheese Elemental wrote:That made me think... what's a good pick-up line in the Imperium?

"Hey baby, my plasma cannon's running hot and I need to purge you in the name of the Emperor tonight."
 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Fayetteville

Skinnattittar wrote:Yes, let us begin to debate at what point one becomes a "Native" of a region.

"Lase" and "Lasing" are not real words, they have been used, but while working in a metal shop where we used lasers to cut materials, we never, ever, at any time, referred to it as "lasing." It was always "laser cutting" or some such. Looking up "lase" or "lasing" you find "to emit focused/coherent light." So it does exist and have a definition, but it is not specific to LASER in any sense that I have ever heard besides this thread.

Fact still stands, LASER is an acronym which has no proper pronunciation without context.


Open a dictionary and be enlightened. Laser and the derivative forms are all actual English words just like any other. Just because you are unaware of a fact, does not make that fact into fiction. The oxford English dictionary lists around 500,000 English words. Do you know them all?

Most modern tanks are equipped with laser range finders. In the crew drills performed by US crews, determining the range to the target using that laser range finder is called, wait for it, lasing. The commander gives the command "Gunner, Sabot, Tank." This command tells the gunner to configure the controls for sabot ammunition and that his target is a tank. When the gunner spots the target in his sight he responds with "Identified." The commander then uses the range finder and says "lasing." The resulting distance is automatically fed to the ballistic computer.




The Imperial Navy, A Galatic Force for Good. 
   
Made in ca
Swift Swooping Hawk





Calgary, AB

Poor arschbombe. All of his carefully constructed arguments are falling on deaf ears, as the unwashed masses go with what sounds good.

Which is, naturally, lazzz. I'll call the pretend guns what I want, thank you very much.

The Battle Report Master wrote:i had a freind come round a few weeks ago to have a 40k apocalpocalpse game i was guards men he was space maines.... my first turn was 4 bonbaonbardlements... jacobs turn to he didnt have one i phased out.
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Tantras wrote: Logically speaking, that makes perfect sense and I understand and agree entirely... but is it RAW?
 
   
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Arschbombe wrote:
Skinnattittar wrote:Yes, let us begin to debate at what point one becomes a "Native" of a region.

"Lase" and "Lasing" are not real words, they have been used, but while working in a metal shop where we used lasers to cut materials, we never, ever, at any time, referred to it as "lasing." It was always "laser cutting" or some such. Looking up "lase" or "lasing" you find "to emit focused/coherent light." So it does exist and have a definition, but it is not specific to LASER in any sense that I have ever heard besides this thread.

Fact still stands, LASER is an acronym which has no proper pronunciation without context.


Open a dictionary and be enlightened. Laser and the derivative forms are all actual English words just like any other. Just because you are unaware of a fact, does not make that fact into fiction. The oxford English dictionary lists around 500,000 English words. Do you know them all?

Most modern tanks are equipped with laser range finders. In the crew drills performed by US crews, determining the range to the target using that laser range finder is called, wait for it, lasing. The commander gives the command "Gunner, Sabot, Tank." This command tells the gunner to configure the controls for sabot ammunition and that his target is a tank. When the gunner spots the target in his sight he responds with "Identified." The commander then uses the range finder and says "lasing." The resulting distance is automatically fed to the ballistic computer.





Refer to my above post and as follows... Who cares? I think the point of the thread was more to see an opinion on waht people think than show off your dictionary skills and knowledge outside of 40k. Honestly, more people (it seems) like laz, so forget it and move on.

"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."

-Excerpt from the Three Hundred and Forty-First

Book of Epistles of Lorgar

Cheese Elemental wrote:That made me think... what's a good pick-up line in the Imperium?

"Hey baby, my plasma cannon's running hot and I need to purge you in the name of the Emperor tonight."
 
   
Made in au
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





Brisbane, Australia

As said before... Lasgun was derived from "Dune"... a search of Wikki, gives the following info (related to pronunciation and laser - the word, not natives)

A lasgun (pronounced lāz-gŭn) is a fictional directed-energy weapon in the fictional Dune universe created by Frank Herbert. In Terminology of the Imperium, the glossary of the novel Dune, Herbert provides the following definition:

LASGUN: continuous-wave laser projector. Its use as a weapon is limited in a field-generator-shield culture because of the explosive pyrotechnics (technically, subatomic fusion) created when its beam intersects a shield.

In WH 40K; Lascannon: The Lascannon's beam produces a myriad of energetic side effects, including significant muzzle flash, more rarely seen in standard Lasguns, owing to the correspondingly greater power put into the laser emitter and consequent increase in plasma blooming.

The lasgun uses the same basic technology and operates along the same lines as other las weapons, emitting a beam of focused light.

Las weapons or Laser weapons is a name given to all Imperial and some xeno laser based weapons.

So, it's origin is 'lazgun'... you can pronounce it any way that you like, but it was created LAZ

Mik

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/05/23 12:02:23



Stress… is when you wake up screaming and realise you haven't fallen asleep yet.

It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them.
 
   
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Killer Klaivex






Forever alone

The lasguns in Dune are like cannons though, huge freaking guns that have to be mounted on ornithopters, IIRC. Ironic, no?

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
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wakefield west yorkshire

why not call it a blinky flash miss stick cos thats all they ever seem to do at the critical moment .......


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next ???????(but there will be a lot of it)

 
   
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Says the guy who plays Space Marines in dresses.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
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Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot




wakefield west yorkshire

Cheese Elemental wrote:Says the guy who plays Space Marines in dresses.


qft
lol

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/23 13:37:36



fear the dark
fear the angels for we are death
darkangels 15000+ pts
sisters of battle 6000+ pts
imp fists full codex company (lord knows how many pts)
space wolves - under construction but well on its away to a grand company
retired (may return) after a codex fubar
next ???????(but there will be a lot of it)

 
   
Made in au
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper





Brisbane, Australia

Although I play Ultras, I still find the DA's fetching in their "Robes"... (counts as 'posh frock')

And, in 40K, we have las pistol / gun / cannon and these are in degrees of size... so, as they say, it's the LAZ not the size that counts

Mik

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/23 13:52:48



Stress… is when you wake up screaming and realise you haven't fallen asleep yet.

It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them.
 
   
Made in au
Killer Klaivex






Forever alone

Then there's the naked water polo. OK, that's enough for now.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Fayetteville

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:
Refer to my above post and as follows... Who cares? I think the point of the thread was more to see an opinion on waht people think than show off your dictionary skills and knowledge outside of 40k. Honestly, more people (it seems) like laz, so forget it and move on.


The original question was not phrased as a matter of popularity. Rather it was a question about correctness. I have answered the question with facts and reasoned argument. The counter argument can be summed up as "But Lays is a brand of chips (or crisps) so it can't be that." Truly impressive. However, you can call the lasgun Raymond Luxury Yacht or Throat Warbler Mangrove for all I care.

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Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine





I'll firmly stand around the pronunciation as "Lazz" Gun



 
   
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Arschbombe wrote:
Skinnattittar wrote:Yes, let us begin to debate at what point one becomes a "Native" of a region.
"Lase" and "Lasing" are not real words, they have been used, but while working in a metal shop where we used lasers to cut materials, we never, ever, at any time, referred to it as "lasing." It was always "laser cutting" or some such. Looking up "lase" or "lasing" you find "to emit focused/coherent light." So it does exist and have a definition, but it is not specific to LASER in any sense that I have ever heard besides this thread.
Fact still stands, LASER is an acronym which has no proper pronunciation without context.

Open a dictionary and be enlightened. Laser and the derivative forms are all actual English words just like any other. Just because you are unaware of a fact, does not make that fact into fiction. The oxford English dictionary lists around 500,000 English words. Do you know them all?
Most modern tanks are equipped with laser range finders. In the crew drills performed by US crews, determining the range to the target using that laser range finder is called, wait for it, lasing. The commander gives the command "Gunner, Sabot, Tank." This command tells the gunner to configure the controls for sabot ammunition and that his target is a tank. When the gunner spots the target in his sight he responds with "Identified." The commander then uses the range finder and says "lasing." The resulting distance is automatically fed to the ballistic computer.

First off, yes, I did open a dictionary and looked it up. It noted that it was not an "accepted derivative." As for tankers, well, I trained at Fort Knox with experienced tank crews, using laser range finders, both for tanks and for my advanced marksmanship training, and never once did anyone say the word "lase" or "lasing." The word "laser" was used, as in "laser that target," but we usually said "ranging" or "stone throwing" because our range finders weren't giving us proper ranges. But nobody ever said "lasing." I'll ask my tanker buddy if he ever used it, but my magic 8-ball says "outlook not good."

Second! Dictionaries are not the best source for finding out if words are actually real words by proper definition, just that those words exist and can be defined. "Ain't" and "gonna" among many other words, derivatives, phrases, conjoinments, contractions, etc are also in dictionaries, many and most of which are still not considered proper words or technically correct. Just because it shows up in a dictionary doesn't mean it is a real word either, just that it has a definition.

Third, my dictionary does not recognize "lase" and "lasing" as being directly related to "laser," just that it exists, and has to do with light, not with beams, focused light energy, that it is a derivative of laser, etc... Just that it was a word and has to do with light. Though many dictionaries have different definitions for words, sometimes quite drastic, reflecting the fact that dictionaries, although a generally reliable source of information, are not technically reliable as sources for finite information. This, of course, still doesn't change the fact that both of your versions in which the "las-" of "laser" is followed by either the "e" or the gerund "-ing" which make the open "a" sound, or "lay-s-". Note that "lasgun" is not followed by an "e" or a conjugation that would make it an open "a," and since it is followed by two consonants instead, then it should be pronounced with a closed "a."

Just because anyone agrees with anyone, doesn't mean they are correct. Beware the thin line between what is "Correct" and what is "Popular." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Fayetteville

Skinnattittar wrote:
First off, yes, I did open a dictionary and looked it up. It noted that it was not an "accepted derivative." As for tankers, well, I trained at Fort Knox with experienced tank crews, using laser range finders, both for tanks and for my advanced marksmanship training, and never once did anyone say the word "lase" or "lasing." The word "laser" was used, as in "laser that target," but we usually said "ranging" or "stone throwing" because our range finders weren't giving us proper ranges. But nobody ever said "lasing." I'll ask my tanker buddy if he ever used it, but my magic 8-ball says "outlook not good."


FM 3-20.12 Abrams Tank Gunnery uses lase and lasing in numerous places throughout:

"Immediately after lasing, the gunner should.."

"After having lased..."

"Figure 9-1. Sight Picture for Lasing on Troops Using Last Return Logic."

"The gunner must not forget to dump lead after re-lasing."



Second! Dictionaries are not the best source for finding out if words are actually real words by proper definition, just that those words exist and can be defined. "Ain't" and "gonna" among many other words, derivatives, phrases, conjoinments, contractions, etc are also in dictionaries, many and most of which are still not considered proper words or technically correct. Just because it shows up in a dictionary doesn't mean it is a real word either, just that it has a definition.


What strange dictionaries do you have that include fake words and their fake definitions? How do you know which words are the real ones and which ones are the fake ones that you can safely ignore? What about onomatopoeia? Is that a real word or a fake one? Looks fake to me.

When I do a simple search online I get results like:


lase /leɪz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [leyz] Show IPA
–verb (used without object), lased, las⋅ing. Optics.
to give off coherent light, as in a laser.
Origin:
1960–65; back formation from laser

lase (lāz)
v. lased, las·ing, las·es
v. intr.
To function as a laser; emit coherent radiation by the action of a laser.
v. tr.
1. To subject to laser light: lased the tissue during surgery.
2. To direct a laser used to guide munitions at (a target).
[Back-formation from laser.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

lase (lāz)
v. lased, las·ing, las·es
To cut, divide, or dissolve a substance with a laser.
The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary

Merriam-Webster.com gives:
Main Entry: lase
Pronunciation: \ˈlāz\
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): lased; las·ing
Etymology: back-formation from laser
Date: 1962
: to emit coherent light

This fake word has been creeping around in dictionaries for almost 50 years. Someone better do something.


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Arschbombe wrote:This fake word has been creeping around in dictionaries for almost 50 years. Someone better do something.
Clearly GW Proofreaders have been infiltrating our Nations Dictionary Staff!

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Still have never heard a tanker say the word "lasing" or "lase" was never trained to say "lasing" or "lase."

As for the dictionaries, I never said "fake," which would imply that those words did not exist. I said, in more words, that dictionaries include words which are not properly words. This can also be applied to training manuals. Read some of them, you will notice a lot of words that shouldn't be there, I have actually read "gonna" and "ain't" in some of the newer manuals and training pamphlets. Sometimes words are made up for convenience, which may or may not be the case with "lase."

Now, I will admit, if it is in fact a word that has been in the dictionaries since 1962, and is infact perhaps a proper word. It still stands, after having worked with laser in both as a technology (physics practices), as a tool (working in with a laser punch press, lathe, and mill), and as a weapon (range finder), I still have never heard anyone say "lase" or "lasing." Even being in an Army training manual, it may simply be an antiquated word which might explain why I have never heard it (please don't pull out a research paper, having read many of them I can attest to having found many authors making up or improperly modifying words so they can create variety, whether they knew they may have been real or not).

You have proven that lase and lasing are in the dictionary, have definitions, and are perhaps even proper words and in common use today, I will no longer refute that, I can not say they definitively are not.

However, as far as in the word "lasgun," it is not "lasegun." There is a distinct lack of the letter "e" in that entire word, "lasgun." Again, "lasgun" and "lasEgun." One has an "e," and the other does not. As mentioned before, laser is actually an acronym, whether it some have considered it to have evolved into a non acronym or not, there are still no conjugations of laser that omit the "r" (I have heard "lasering" or "lasered" but I don't know if those are proper words...), lase and lasing are, as you have noted and I have noticed in my dictionaries, are "back formations," not conjugations. Back formations are actions of convenience or mistaken understanding, and although there are many examples (the one I always remember is "resurrect" and "resurrection"), it is, from what I understand, not technically acceptable grammar.

Just because anyone agrees with anyone, doesn't mean they are correct. Beware the thin line between what is "Correct" and what is "Popular." 
   
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Mishawaka, Indiana

Standard issue Flashlight.

If you're lucky, itll blind someone long enough for the Space Marines to come and steal all the glory.


Seriously though, I pronounce it laz. Lassgun sounds like itll be firing small women at the enemy......

and I dont wanna talk about a Lasscannon...

1500 (Work In Progress) 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Fayetteville

Skinnattittar wrote:
However, as far as in the word "lasgun," it is not "lasegun." There is a distinct lack of the letter "e" in that entire word, "lasgun." Again, "lasgun" and "lasEgun." One has an "e," and the other does not. As mentioned before, laser is actually an acronym, whether it some have considered it to have evolved into a non acronym or not, there are still no conjugations of laser that omit the "r" (I have heard "lasering" or "lasered" but I don't know if those are proper words...), lase and lasing are, as you have noted and I have noticed in my dictionaries, are "back formations," not conjugations. Back formations are actions of convenience or mistaken understanding, and although there are many examples (the one I always remember is "resurrect" and "resurrection"), it is, from what I understand, not technically acceptable grammar.


The acronym was LASER. The language has moved on and for 50 years laser has been a word with the etymology shown as having come from LASER. The language adapts to changes in the culture. A few years ago google was just the name of a search engine and the parent company. It has morphed into a verb too (as of 2001): to google, googled, googling. Texting is another such development that comes to mind. To text became a verb in 1998.

Lase follows the same rules as phase, phrase, face etc

Lase, lased, lasing

phrase, phrased, phrasing

phase, phased, phasing

face, faced, facing.

You don't always need the e to guide pronunciation when the root form is understood and we know that in 40k, the humble lasgun and the powerful lascannon are both based on laser technology.



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Sheffield, England

...But "lase-gun" sounds really, really, crap!

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Fayetteville

The Dreadnote wrote:...But "lase-gun" sounds really, really, crap!


I guess that makes it official. The imperium uses lazzers instead of lasers, well, except on the multilaser -someone must have missed the memo. It must have something to do with Old Night.

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Lass. Not Laze. IMO.

Lazegun sounds terrible.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/05/25 00:36:49


 
   
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Its not Lass, its Laz (with no e)

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Yep, Gwar is correct. Again.

People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Fayetteville

When I hear someone say lazzgun it makes me think they should perhaps narfle the garthog.

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@ Arsch : You will notice all those words you used have been conjugated. "Lase" is not a conjugation, as I said (which you seemed to have ignored), but is a back-formation, which are not always considered "proper" but, as you have pointed out and if still not part of the furthering of the discussion, repeated use may eventually become accepted, or at least be given a definition, please note that having a definition does not necessarily mean it is proper. Zerox seemed to have missed your list, and is perhaps the most famous of a brand/company name becoming a replacement word or verb (could you zerox this memo for me/could you copy this memo for me). However this is not considered proper, it is common, not usually shunned, but you wouldn't expect to find it in a technical manual (let us not harken back to your tanker TM for this, as you should notice I put "expect," which hadn't and in my career never heard used).

Now, as for lasguns, traditional lore has become hotly debated as to whether or not lasguns uses lasers. I think currently most who have informed themselves about lasguns feel that they are not (lasers have no recoil, only weak lasers are colored [lasguns are colored] where powerful lasers are on a wavelength not visible to the human eye, lasers are essentially silent, the list goes on and needs not be mentioned further in my opinion). Multilasers are supposed to be based on lasers, though there is scant written information about them in later GW material (in my experience, though I have not read all the books and current lore), and this thread is not about the pronunciation of Multi-laser.

What Arsch seems to be arguing is that "lasgun" is a back-formation of a back-formation that has had a word joining (sorry, forgot the technical term for it) with "gun," in the same way as shot gun became shotgun, or hand gun became handgun. However neither of those are back-formations, nor are they back-formations of back-formations, but just the root words conjoined.

I find both (or bolth) lassgun and lazgun acceptable, though where I live accents make them sound pretty much the same. I also accept "laysgun," but see it as people just trying to be a bit elite or having fun (as we have all heard this argument many a time before).

Just because anyone agrees with anyone, doesn't mean they are correct. Beware the thin line between what is "Correct" and what is "Popular." 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Spitsbergen

laz-gun. It would probably sound like the stormtrooper blasters from starwars IMHO
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Fayetteville

Skinnattittar wrote:@ Arsch : You will notice all those words you used have been conjugated. "Lase" is not a conjugation, as I said (which you seemed to have ignored), but is a back-formation, which are not always considered "proper" but, as you have pointed out and if still not part of the furthering of the discussion, repeated use may eventually become accepted, or at least be given a definition, please note that having a definition does not necessarily mean it is proper. Zerox seemed to have missed your list, and is perhaps the most famous of a brand/company name becoming a replacement word or verb (could you zerox this memo for me/could you copy this memo for me). However this is not considered proper, it is common, not usually shunned, but you wouldn't expect to find it in a technical manual (let us not harken back to your tanker TM for this, as you should notice I put "expect," which hadn't and in my career never heard used).


I find this harping on the back-formation origins to be irrelevant. There are many verbs that have come into the language by back-formation. It's a natural process of language evolution. I can't imagine English ever being full and unable to accept new words. Is your issue here that 50 years simply isn't long enough? That if the back-formation dates back to shakespeare then it's OK?


Now, as for lasguns, traditional lore has become hotly debated as to whether or not lasguns uses lasers. I think currently most who have informed themselves about lasguns feel that they are not (lasers have no recoil, only weak lasers are colored [lasguns are colored] where powerful lasers are on a wavelength not visible to the human eye, lasers are essentially silent, the list goes on and needs not be mentioned further in my opinion). Multilasers are supposed to be based on lasers, though there is scant written information about them in later GW material (in my experience, though I have not read all the books and current lore), and this thread is not about the pronunciation of Multi-laser.


Why does this have to become a dissertation on physics? It doesn't matter what lasers really do. This is 40k. The fluff makes a distinction between laser weaponry and plasma weaponry as part of the lore. The laser stuff is ubiquitous and the plasma stuff is rare. It doesn't matter if their descriptions of either technology actually match what our current understanding of the technology is. They're just borrowing from standard scifi cliches.


What Arsch seems to be arguing is that "lasgun" is a back-formation of a back-formation that has had a word joining (sorry, forgot the technical term for it) with "gun," in the same way as shot gun became shotgun, or hand gun became handgun. However neither of those are back-formations, nor are they back-formations of back-formations, but just the root words conjoined.


Back-formations are verbs. Lasgun is a compound word from laser + gun. I see it as an attempt to short-circuit the argument about what lasers can actually do and how much potential they have as actual weapons. This way when they describe it's capabilities you aren't immediately dismissive based on your understanding of lasers in the real world.


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