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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

I would side with the loyalists until Emps got stupid and died (sort of) and than go renagade, because I don't do this Emperoar-worshiping thing.

WarmasterScott wrote:yes the imperium hates mutants cept oh idk Sanguinius and the fuzzy sw.. wolf mongrels and space vampires? no no they're not mutants. They're made by the emperor. Awesome so the loved hypocrite makes mutants to kill mutants that won't fall in line. Yea sounds like a super guy to follow.. no I'll stick with Perturabo and my legion.
In following my brothers I will not fall to mutation.

Iron Within, Iron Without!

This nails it right on. KILL THE MUTANT!!! (but if it's a space marine....not so much......and if it's an ogryn....and if its a ratling....and etc etc ad-naseum).

Yup, I'd join Chaos. Tzeentch for me. At his core, he's the most honest. Change is constant.

Night Lords wrote:Ofcourse they cant let Abbadon win over the "almighty" imperium, its just the nature of the 40k universe. However, Abbadon annihilates as many irrelevant chapters as it takes to be deemed "badass".

SMs are full of failure. Even in the SM codex. One entry was "Ultras ambushed by Night lords, caught by surprise - death and casualties everywhere....uhh, ULTRAS WIN (because this is the SM codex)".

This is also the reason loyalists never get to put down the big-bads for the count. Perfect example: Armageddon3. The Imperium holds on the ground, and the fleet kicks all KINDS of butt in space because Orks were never very good in BFG. The logical outcome is Da Boyz being slowly suffocated by superior orbital support and supply lines for the Imperium. Instead, we end up with Ghazkhull getting bored with constant bloodshed and fighting (??!!!) and flying away on his space hulk and nobody does much of anything. The stasis-blade of GW writing cuts both ways.

inquisitorfaust wrote:

Night Lords wrote:Ofcourse they cant let Abbadon win over the "almighty" imperium, its just the nature of the 40k universe. However, Abbadon annihilates as many irrelevant chapters as it takes to be deemed "badass".

SMs are full of failure. Even in the SM codex. One entry was "Ultras ambushed by Night lords, caught by surprise - death and casualties everywhere....uhh, ULTRAS WIN (because this is the SM codex)".

This is also the reason loyalists never get to put down the big-bads for the count. Perfect example: Armageddon3. The Imperium holds on the ground, and the fleet kicks all KINDS of butt in space because Orks were never very good in BFG. The logical outcome is Da Boyz being slowly suffocated by superior orbital support and supply lines for the Imperium. Instead, we end up with Ghazkhull getting bored with constant bloodshed and fighting (??!!!) and flying away on his space hulk and nobody does much of anything. The stasis-blade of GW writing cuts both ways.

Agreed. I think that a GW representative once said in a press conference that they would never kill named characters that they had minis for (named characters without them on the other hand...).
It's the power of profit. GW exists, like all private companies, to make money. As long as those character models continue to sell, they have no reason to kill off the characters and lose money to advance the story.

No sm or csm group fails more than the Imperial Fists(Iron Cage Incident) =D It's also in the fluff that only like 3 of the 13 crusades were for actual conquest. The rest were for supplies etc. The whiny Imperials can thank Eldrad and the space fairies for the assist on numerous saves from big bad Abby. So lets see it took the whole of the Imperial forces and space fairies to beat back the Legion. Oh yes Abby is the real wimp here.

WarmasterScott wrote:No sm or csm group fails more than the Imperial Fists(Iron Cage Incident) =D It's also in the fluff that only like 3 of the 13 crusades were for actual conquest. The rest were for supplies etc. The whiny Imperials can thank Eldrad and the space fairies for the assist on numerous saves from big bad Abby. So lets see it took the whole of the Imperial forces and space fairies to beat back the Legion. Oh yes Abby is the real wimp here.

Let's see, even assuming the 3 number is true (I have no idea), Abaddon managed to unit all the squabbling Chaos factions and gain the blessing of all 4 Chaos gods. He had millions of Chaos Space Marines, countless billions of cultist hordes, countless daemons from the Warp, and massive industrial support from the Chaos Forge Worlds. And each time he has failed to conquer a single planet..

Deathbot wrote:Agreed. I think that a GW representative once said in a press conference that they would never kill named characters that they had minis for (named characters without them on the other hand...).
It's the power of profit. GW exists, like all private companies, to make money. As long as those character models continue to sell, they have no reason to kill off the characters and lose money to advance the story.

You mean like Eldrad Ulthran (has a model)? Sgt Naaman (Dark Angel SC, has a model)? Capt Tycho (BA SC, has a model)? All killed during campaigns. Tycho killed during the last Armageddon campaign, actually.

GW is obviously not above offing characters. And I'd consider Eldrad to be a pretty important one. Which makes it even funnier that he shows up in every Eldar list...

Deathbot wrote:

WarmasterScott wrote:No sm or csm group fails more than the Imperial Fists(Iron Cage Incident) =D It's also in the fluff that only like 3 of the 13 crusades were for actual conquest. The rest were for supplies etc. The whiny Imperials can thank Eldrad and the space fairies for the assist on numerous saves from big bad Abby. So lets see it took the whole of the Imperial forces and space fairies to beat back the Legion. Oh yes Abby is the real wimp here.

Let's see, even assuming the 3 number is true (I have no idea), Abaddon managed to unit all the squabbling Chaos factions and gain the blessing of all 4 Chaos gods. He had millions of Chaos Space Marines, countless billions of cultist hordes, countless daemons from the Warp, and massive industrial support from the Chaos Forge Worlds. And each time he has failed to conquer a single planet..

So would you place the fail on a ficticious character or the writers for failing to make him a more worthy foe? Because it seems more often then not that not a single enemy of the Imperium has gained any ground either or very little. So would it be safe to say that the writers are afraid to have the Imperium lose too often and possibly blemish the image of the Imperials? As far as individual characters I would be more inclined to say the more powerful the character the harder he falls as to preserve a strange balance. I mean look at the primarchs. In the grand scheme of the fluff they vanished quite quickly from the scene. The quick rise and fall trend I think is more due to the fact that there are so many factions who want air time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So by him not destroying everything in his few crusades he's a fail. Well that logic doesn't bode well for any long standing villain in books or heroes. The Joker has been after batman for 40+ yrs. The world has been after cancer for yrs now. The Imperium has been after xenos and chaos for just alittle while now. The world is full of examples where someone hasn't been all that successful, but does that make em a loser?

Loyalist
Create a galatic atheist empire centered around science and spreading the truth?
Yes please

WarmasterScott wrote:
So by him not destroying everything in his few crusades he's a fail. Well that logic doesn't bode well for any long standing villain in books or heroes. The Joker has been after batman for 40+ yrs. The world has been after cancer for yrs now. The Imperium has been after xenos and chaos for just alittle while now. The world is full of examples where someone hasn't been all that successful, but does that make em a loser?

It's not the fact that he's failed to destroy the Imperium. It's that he cannot conquer a single planet when he has the numbers to, if all else fails, bury the Imperials there under the weight of his own dead. Not to mention a good portion of his troops (the daemons) are immortal and can just be re-summoned over and over again if killed.

Deathbot, that's not technically true, since part of the 13th crusade results writeup is that the Archenemy has established worlds outside the Eye that are completely their territory. Cadia herself is not among them, but the Despoiler has conquered worlds.

Anyway, I feel like the question of how powerful Abbadon is or is not is besides the point. His biggest failing is that he is a poorly written character even by GW standards. He's a big bad who seems to have no purpose but to be a name dropped in association with all the terrible things that happen in the galaxy. It's not like Kharn or Typhus are all that deep either, but bear with me here.

People like Kharn, Lucius, and Typhus, they can get away with having no higher motive than to serve their master God well. Because that's really what they are, the chosen servants. They do what their boss man tells them to, or what they think will make the boss happy, and that's what they're looking for in life.

Abbadon, though, has no such excuse because he's supposed to be a leader, so he needs more to him than just doing what the 4 powers tell him. He needs an actual personality and goals of his own, and damn is he chock-full of self-contradiction.

He revered Horus, except he calls Horus weak and a fool. He wants to be a god, except he keeps turning down the biggest step between him and God-hood of Daemonhood. He's a cunning, wily guy who knows when to exit stage left, but he will execute underlings that show the same cunning in preserving his resources. The only thing he seems consistent on is that he really does hate the Imperium. His motivation is unclear, his goals are inconsistent with his actions, and he seems like a really crappy employer. I myself have no idea why the hell *anyone* would follow him, let alone the prideful, arrogant people CSM are supposed to be.

Mind you, if they really set their mind to it, I do think GW could salvage him, put Abbie's actions into some sort of consistancy, and make him into at least a tolerable villain. Hell, I probably could given a chance. As is though, he's just bad, and not just in the villainous sense. Maybe they'll sit down and straighten him out later, but as is he comes across as every villain stereotype rolled into one, with a healthy dose of anti-personality to boot.

inquisitorfaust wrote:Deathbot, that's not technically true, since part of the 13th crusade results writeup is that the Archenemy has established worlds outside the Eye that are completely their territory. Cadia herself is not among them, but the Despoiler has conquered worlds.

Anyway, I feel like the question of how powerful Abbadon is or is not is besides the point. His biggest failing is that he is a poorly written character even by GW standards. He's a big bad who seems to have no purpose but to be a name dropped in association with all the terrible things that happen in the galaxy. It's not like Kharn or Typhus are all that deep either, but bear with me here.

People like Kharn, Lucius, and Typhus, they can get away with having no higher motive than to serve their master God well. Because that's really what they are, the chosen servants. They do what their boss man tells them to, or what they think will make the boss happy, and that's what they're looking for in life.

Abbadon, though, has no such excuse because he's supposed to be a leader, so he needs more to him than just doing what the 4 powers tell him. He needs an actual personality and goals of his own, and damn is he chock-full of self-contradiction.

He revered Horus, except he calls Horus weak and a fool. He wants to be a god, except he keeps turning down the biggest step between him and God-hood of Daemonhood. He's a cunning, wily guy who knows when to exit stage left, but he will execute underlings that show the same cunning in preserving his resources. The only thing he seems consistent on is that he really does hate the Imperium. His motivation is unclear, his goals are inconsistent with his actions, and he seems like a really crappy employer. I myself have no idea why the hell *anyone* would follow him, let alone the prideful, arrogant people CSM are supposed to be.

Mind you, if they really set their mind to it, I do think GW could salvage him, put Abbie's actions into some sort of consistancy, and make him into at least a tolerable villain. Hell, I probably could given a chance. As is though, he's just bad, and not just in the villainous sense. Maybe they'll sit down and straighten him out later, but as is he comes across as every villain stereotype rolled into one, with a healthy dose of anti-personality to boot.

He revered Horus prior to his death. He denounced Horus as weak because he was killed, causing the defeat of his rebellion. In his view, Horus did not deserve to be leader of Chaos because he lost his fight with the Emperor.

He doesn't want daemonhood because he wants to be worshiped as a god for his strength, not because the Chaos gods made him a warp-entity. Also, that would prevent him from staying in the material universe most of the time. He wants to rule the galaxy, not be trapped in the warp forever.

He executes underlings for several reasons. First, he needs to maintain the favor of Khorne to keep a good part of his armies in line, and not spilling blood when he could isn't a great way to go about it. Second, Chaos is in constant conflict with itself. There is never-ending backstabbing going on among its followers. In order to keep his position, he has to kill cunning underlings before they become cunning enough to be a threat. Third, the killing helps to keep otherwise potentially rebellious underlings cowed and subdued.

His underlings follow him because he is the strongest. That's how Chaos works. You often get promoted by killing your superior, showing that he wasn't worthy of the job anyway because he was too weak. He represents the strongest unifying force, which is why they follow him. If someone else were to defeat and kill him, they'd get his job.

WarmasterScott wrote:Eldrad and the space fairies

Space Fairies....I like this a lot .

Yeah, trying to kill ur father is pretty messed up... Black Templars leader dude gave his life for the emporer... GO BLACK TEMPLAR!

Deathbot wrote: If someone else were to defeat and kill him, they'd get his job.

And when that happens Perturabo will be the man to pick it up.

They work on Abaddons characters in the HH series and novels like execution hour. It even has a extract about him telling a daemon 2 stfu in the apoc rule book

Sharik wrote:Loyalist
Create a galatic atheist empire centered around science and spreading the truth?
Yes please

And then they begin to quickly descend in power as they worship a corpse and limit their ability to gain technological knowledge...

It's the story of my life...

Loyalist all the way. Imperial Fist if I could choose. I would gladly lay down my life for my Emperor even knowing the outcome - even more so knowing that Corpse-God was only the least favorable of the 'good' outcomes. Seriously, if more participants had ignored the self fulfilling prophesies and whispers of Chaos that surrounded the whole event and just got on with doing the right thing (Night Haunter, Alpharius, Magnus, etc) then the Emp very likely would have won outright and a new golden age would have been in the offing.

Anyway, hopefully I could survive the whole mess, but (to paraphrase Spongebob) if I were to die in a fiery explosion caused by the treachery of a friend...well, that would just be okay.

I'm sorry but everyone is dreaming.

If ANYTHING we nerds who wargame would be scribe geeks in the Administorium or maybe some of us would be PDF. We would be on the side that pointed their guns at us and made us to their bidding.

Me personally? Run the $*#& away screaming. Yeah. If ANYTHING Loyalist. Chaos looks like it comes from your deepest nightmares, few peopel could live with themselves after doing such atrocities. I would probably either turn my gun on myself or go along with chaos and be sacrificed or chained into service if I had to fight with Chaos.

EzeKK wrote:I'm sorry but everyone is dreaming.

Well...yes. Considering the thread title uses "would" and not "are/will be".

i would be loyalist. a dead friggin loyalist though. especially if i played as one of my iron hands marines.

ME well I am going to go neither because it would be fun to sit on the fence and watch brother kill each other

For the Emprah. Either way you're a slave, but I'd rather be a slave to a somewhat less evil group. The punishments aren't as bad

For the Empraaaagh! ::

I'd rather not be a blood-crazed mutant, thanks. The traitors royally f**ked up the Emperor's plans. If not for them we would have progressed yet further.

For the Imperium and the Emperor!!!!

Imperial Fist and loyalist until the end! (even if Tzeenctch powers are corrupting me slowly)

Cryonicleech wrote:Traitors.

Power is worth ANY sacrifice.

I'd, of course, join the Fail Legion (Read: Black Legion) as I'm one of the few who actually LIKE the Black Legion.

Black Legion FTF! (for the fail )

I'd ditch te ehpura in like five seconds but I'd avoid becoming a toy for the chaos gods.
I'd just pillage and plunder my way across the galaxy, making friends all along the way.


P.S. @ Cryonicleech. We need to get another game in sometime ya?

traitor traitor traitor

Night Lords!
make you fear everything around you

Loyalist. I play Dark Angels, and I've read what Interrogator Chaplains will do. I'd rather ride on a giant friggin' ship as opposed to waiting for them.