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I am positive I have read a piece of official fluff which talks about the emperors warp presence, along with good old gork and mork. I can't remember where, so can't substantiate any of this, but as soon as it comes to me I'll edit.

WBH

Would the Emperor's warp presence have come about as a result of adoration or the fear of not worshiping the Emperor?

If it is the latter, it would mean the Emperor's warp presence would be one of knightmares and terror...not something that would be too bothered about what is going on around it.

Well the Emperor would be the 5th God of "Chaos" that represents Order. This though was included with the Starchild and the Senshi (who are his mortal descendants). He is that stablizing force.

He wouldnt need to resist the Corruption since he was not an empyrean entity when it was thrown into turmoil. As a Warp Entity he would have more freedom and less pain. I forget where I read it but the Golden Throne causes his spirit immeasurable pain and his entire existance is bent on protecting his people.

Also if he dies and becomes a Warp Entity or reborn in the Starchild. Then will the webway protal open since he is not sitting on the Golden Throne?

Is the Emporer a god as the Imperial citizens view him or is he just the greatest man to ever live like the Space Marines say?

Your problem is with the definition of a 'god'. To me in 40K 'god' has always come to classify the highest level of deamon, a sort of deamonic warlord who is so insanley bent on their brand of warfare that they draw metaphysical power from its use, and dictate their followers to fight no other way.

Also consider that 40K fluff in this department is heavily based on Nordic mythos. To the Nords their Gods were completly differant from the Judeo-Christian (spelling) and even the Neo-Pagen versions, they in fact had an expiration date and some major deities would be killed in a great battle to come, see Ragnarok. Getting back on topic though, this shows us a type of deity that most of us are unfamiliar with, one that can be killed and whos power isn't completly unlimited. After establishing this we can imagine then that the only differance between a Blood Thirster and Khorn is order of magnitude, exponential though it may be.

That's my personal view on it in any case I hope I inspired you.

If I recall correctly, there *are* good "gods" in the warp, or at least there were in older fluff. I'm not sure if that is still canonical.

Fetterkey wrote:If I recall correctly, there *are* good "gods" in the warp, or at least there were in older fluff. I'm not sure if that is still canonical.

I think I remember that. Also, I'm sure I've read a description of Khorne where it says that he has a belt with heads of lesser gods hanging off.

Well he was called the New Man. All the psykers of like what amounds to 8,000 BC if I remember correctly gathered together because their reincarnation was becoming less likely and they could not defend humanity from the warp. In 2 generations these shamans would be gone. So they took drastic action. They killed themselves in a mighty ritual and that combine soul was born into a single body would become known as the Emperor. The Emperor then sent about defending humanity. It was only till the Age of Strife when he said enough was enough and took a more active hand in defending and leading humanity.

In short, he was a man who had been given all the super powers of the shady shamans.

There's no evil and no good in the universe of 40k (or ours for that matter) . Even those we would think as "the good guys" (IG, SM) are truthfully no better than the Nazis or the KKK. Good and evil are simply a point of view. The mindless slaughter of the blood god is about as evil to the Khorne Berzerkers as it is for a Christian to go to mass. Love and hate. Life and death. Their evils are cancelled out by their goods, and therefore everything takes on an aspect of neutrality.

There are as many "good" Gods in the warp as there are "evil" because there is no such thing as good and evil.

I always liked to think of how the chaos gods are always trying to influence the physical realm whilst the celestial/good spirits seek not to directly influence the physical realm to their own ends as they feel they'd be no better than them. That or they feel no need to manifest themselves as often and are occupied doing their own thing. Seeing the chaos gods as petty/materialistic by comparison. Plus its a lot harder to be pure and good than degrade to the level of chaos so maybe they rarely see a being in the physical realm they judge worthy enough of their attention. Whereas the chaos gods lie and corrupt I can imagine the celestials ( lets call them that for the sake of it ) only reward that rare individual who proves themselves worthy with actions and faith against all the odds. Never flinching in devotion and thought. Having to earn their respect but not for the reason of greed for power but to be selfless in the extreme. Such as saint sabbat in the sabbat worlds crusade or the sisters of battle. Maybe even the grey knights.

Thats my thoughts on this. Hope gives more angles to think on.

As far as Slaanesh goes, I don't think he/she really represents 'love'. It's more of a representation of 'lust', no?

Razzle wrote:As far as Slaanesh goes, I don't think he/she really represents 'love'. It's more of a representation of 'lust', no?

desire

Manchu wrote:

Razzle wrote:As far as Slaanesh goes, I don't think he/she really represents 'love'. It's more of a representation of 'lust', no?

desire

Not to mention excess.
Anyho Sometimes its best not to think about it and just accept that Warhammer is fiction. So in conclusion the warp is fiction so there is no gods.
Except Khaine cos his cool

A man walks down the street and sees a beggar. When the beggar asks for aid, the man gives the beggar a large sum of money and departs.
A man walks down the road encounters a craftsman carrying large sum of money. After exchanging pleasantries, the man kills the craftsman and departs with the money.

If you judge by the actions, the man in the first example is "good", and the man in the second example is "evil", right? But if you found out that it was the same man in both cases, then the first example becomes an "evil" man doing a "good" deed. If you replace the man with a god in the examples, presumably the answers would remain the same. After all, the situation is still one of assigning morality on the basis of the actions performed. But the problem with gods or warp entities is that there's no way of telling whether a person is dealing with an actually distinct entity or something which is just a smaller portion of one of the bigger entities.

Inso wrote:I am surprised that there is not a manifestation of the Emperor in warp space. Billions of people worship him...surely that is enough to get the maelstrom busy building a psychic manifestation of him.

Can you Imagine, the Emperor...chaos god?

Could be interesting and the big question? Would he be good or bad?

Whats the astronomnomnomicon but a manifestation of the emprah? plus you also get all the living saints "infused with the power of the emprah" and stuff. sounds a lot like a warp god giving its blessings to a chosen champion to me (and it might explain why the inquisitions so carefully about ensuring the legitimacy of each saint)

What this there is no good and evil nonsense?

Every faction in 40k who can think is evil. All of them.

Thats why its Grim-dark not Grim-grey.

Wait, isn't there an explanation for this that involves the old one's war with the C'Tan?

Edit: Found it!

Because of the mass amount of bloodshed during the war of the Old Ones and the C'Tan, the benign creatures in the Warp were twisted, hence why there are no longer any "Good" Gods.

And the concept of good and evil is not simplistic. There IS good and evil, to deny so is akin to denying the sun and the moon itself.

Cryonicleech wrote:Wait, isn't there an explanation for this that involves the old one's war with the C'Tan?

Edit: Found it!

Because of the mass amount of bloodshed during the war of the Old Ones and the C'Tan, the benign creatures in the Warp were twisted, hence why there are no longer any "Good" Gods.

And the concept of good and evil is not simplistic. There IS good and evil, to deny so is akin to denying the sun and the moon itself.

I bet you'd find (if 40k was rl) a Beserker who though killing wasn't evil. Good and evil is a point of view.